2 and 3 draw bend issue on Manji in D
Hi Kinya,
I have 6 harps (including Session steel, 1847, Sp20, manji, and crossover). I can bend all of them fairly easy. However I struggle with the manji 2 and 3 draw bend. If I pull really hard I can get it to bend these holes but it goes from no bend to the bottom of the bend. I can slowly pull down and bring back up the draw bends for these holes on all other harps I own. After attempting to work through this for months I believe the issue is most likely gapping or something else having to do with the harp. I had someone at manji take a look at it and sent it back in the same condition. Any ideas of what I can check?
Hi Darth ;o) stay tuned...
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Thanks Kinya! I look forward to hearing back form you soon. I appologize but my computer was a little glichy yesterday and it appears the same question was sent to you twice. I will close the other one out so we can use this chat and keep Darth included in the loop if thats alright?
Also, if you could include in our next conversation what is most oftern the steps needed with harps in general when attempting to gap the low reeds for easier draw bends (i.e. minimize the blow gap, minimize the draw, other?).
Thanks again!
Are you comparing the Manji in the key of D with your other harps in the key of D. I have a set of Manji from D to low F. They all have different bending characteristics with the higher register keys the most challenging to hit and maintain a bend and the D requiring the most attention. I also have the same set in S20 and they have the same challenges. The S20 tend to be a "sloppier" bend to hold in the key of D. I do find that the higher key harps bend better with less or no force and a relaxed embouchure.
Hi John,
THANKS! I have a sp20 in C and F which are the closest key to compare. Dont have the funds for more than my set of 6 (G,A,Bb, C,D, F) for now so I dont have duplicate keys. I do know that manji and seydels are a little tougher than the hohner typically to play so I did take that into consideration but that said I can control bend and all other 5 harps even the higher C and F. I definitely think you are on to something there and will use that in playing the D. Any suggestions of how you work to get a controlled bend on the 2 and 3 bend? Does it just take more pulling? I really want to be able to bend those holes down nice and slow instead of no bend to full bend.
Thanks again JCT
The one skill I am concerned about losing with the harp is bending so I am a bit anel with practice. I do 30 minutes a day minimum using Bending study 5 exercises before moving on to the rest of my practice. I start with the low F and work through all keys. For me a must is using harp ninja. I do the exercises at speed and mix with finess making sure to hit the bends cleanly. This method helps me get very familiar with each harps bend characteristics. When working on study songs that have tricky bends in the lick I do "dry runs" with harp ninja. Yes it's commitment but satisfying.
Ps no it's not more pulling but relaxing on the draw. Easy to say but I experiment a lot with seeing how softly I can bend.
Thanks John. I'm not that far in the study material but I'll skip ahead to take a look at that. Thanks for taking g the time to answer this for me.
Hello All, sage advise from John--thanx. I'm reminded of what Rick Estrin wrote on my legacy Marine Band cardbox box, "Keep it in your mouth"! You've heard many people (including me) relate learning music to that of learning a new language. Immersion (repetition) is paramount! You DO until you sound FLUENT. Record and listen back to your playing (songs). After awhile, you will "hear" yourself in tune, or out of tune.
As for the Suzuki welded phosphor reeds (i.e. Manji, Olive, Promaster), I too find "adjusting" my playing style is a requirement to match the instrument. Seydel stainless steel reeds and, the Hohner line of brass reeds harmonicas--all require me to calibrate my embouchure and breathing. Many players, for this reason choose their instruments carefully, and tend to match the make and models. For example, David Barrett only plays customized Marine Band harmonicas by Joe Filisko, Andy Just only plays semi-customized Suzuki Manji harmonicas by the Harpsmith, and I mostly play customized Hohner Rocket diatonic harmonicas (I know a guy;o)
Having written that, there are things you can do under the hood to improve the bendability of your diatonic harmonicas:
- GAPPING https://www.bluesharmonica.com/harp_tech_study_4_reed_gapping
- ZERO POINT https://www.bluesharmonica.com/reed_gapping_establishing_zero_point_question
- SIZING https://www.bluesharmonica.com/harp_tech_study_6_reed_sizing
Before you attempt Zero Point and Sizing, I strongly recommend you start with lowering the Gaps on Blow and Draw Reeds #2, and #3 about .002" from it's present gapping. You can do this with the reed plates still attached to the comb.
- Remove the top and bottom cover plates,
- The draw side is relatively easy, because you can see the rivet side of the reeds. With a wooden toothpick positioned near the tip of the free end, carefully push down the reed into the slot approximately 3/16". Repeat about 6 times
- The blow side is a little more tricky, because you can't see the rivet side of the reed. You will need the "hook" reed tool found in most harmonica tool kits. If you don't have this tool, make one out of a paper clip. A small needle nose pliers work great for creating the 90degree bend (hook). Slide the hook into the slot and adjust the hook until it pushes the free end out of the slot about 3/16". Repeat about 6 times
One final reminder, the phenomenon known as reed bending, is a symbiotic relationship with both the blow and draw reeds (separated by at least one half step), so work in pairs; first the #2 Blow, then #2 Draw. Replace the cover plates by pinching the cover plate tabs (saves time from having to install the fasteners) and test your work. Good, but not great, repeat the above steps.
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Great info. I plan to do that tomorrow!
Thank you for your thoughts and guidance, Kinya.
May the force be with us ALL!
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
p.s. I still think the "original" actor who played the dying Darth Vader looks like Ray Milland
Hi Kinya,
Well life got busy and I still haven't had the time to adjust the gaps as you suggested but will this weekend. Before I do though would you recommend me buying a cheap $10 harp to practice adjustments technique on first? All my harps are new as I'm a beginner and I dont want to mess anything up.
Thanks
That would be an excellent idea! Good thinking.
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
I'm curious what Kinya will say, because I've had similar issues with a Suzuki Promaster (key of A); Promaster and Manji use the same reed plates. I gave up a lot more quickly than JCT, though. For what it's worth, I play SP20s and don't have any problems bending.