Another bad buy?
EDIT: save your time by not reading the entire thread but scroll down to post 14 as the riddle is solved!!
Hi guys,I'm new here and also new to the entire world of harmonica (or music in general)).But I have a question...So,.. I recently bought a Hohner special 20. I did some online lessons by David and - although having problems with the language which isn't my native - it went pretty good I would say. As soon as I started with the first 3 holes it went bad and I finally discovered that "hole 3 BLOW" didn't work. How did I disover that? Well by simply closing the other holes next to it with my fingers and then blow & draw in all holes (imagine putting mouth a bit over fingers). I found out that EVERY blow/draw hole on my special 20 did work perfectly except for 3 BLOW. No sound at all. So I sent it back to the supplier for that and even replaced it for a Hohner MB crossover (like david suggested that one), which I have now for some days. SO... the first thing I would do when having my MB was testing again all holes in the way described above (putting fingers next to the hole I was testing). Now THIS time it was the 2-DRAW hole that didn't work. No sound at all. Started googling and it became clear that it takes some effort for everyone learning this 2 DRAW. But then, why did I perfectly get a sound out of it (using my finger method) in my Special 20? That doesn't make sense, does it? So I am truly thinking that there IS something physically wrong with my MB. Also because I tried everything to get some sound out of this hole and it is extremely hard and I realy can't imagine it should be like that. I am really a starter and I do not see myself open up this device to check it.. I mean, doesn't this have to work fine out of the box? I don't even have tools for it. So I am pondering now to send it back as well.... but I simply don't now it anymore. Any ideas?
PS, sorry.. all paragraphs disappeared after pasting the text, no idea how to change that.
EDIT: save your time by not reading the entire thread but scroll down to post 14 as the riddle is solved!!
as hole 2 entirely stopped working now! So it's not only 2 DRAW anymore but the BLOW side of the coin idem dito, doesn't produce any sound anymore. I just tried to play some things a few hours ago and put it aside and reading your advice John I took it again and then niks noppes nada niente from hole 2 .. this is interesting, I mean.. wow .. such a fast decline! I hope this doesn't predict a gloomy future for me and the harp, honestly!
Do not get discouraged !!
This is all normal stuff with harmonica when you start.
The crossover is a very good instrument but when you're very very new those can sometimes pose a challenge due to poor/unpracticed technique. But it will also help you cultivate good skill right from the start. So a tiny bit harder now but much easier down the line.
Try breathing softer. Start so soft nothing happens and build it up from there. Try to get a feel for how the reed responds. Work on your tongue block to isolate single notes because with the finger you will always have a hard time! Using a finger to help you try holes is a flawed idea because this forces your mouth to change and everything about your sound comes from your mouth.
AND be patient ! For me, the first 6 months were very hard when I started. It can be very frustrating at first if you have certain expectations. Watch some level one video's over and over. David provides a lot of courses for every level. You can try everything that's in level 1. After a while when you get impatient try another lesson.
Harmonica is like violin or trumpet, when you're new and you play everyone runs and hides but when you get good people think you are doing magic !
P.S: when I started I couldn't do hole 2 draw either. I cheated and did blow 3 instead hahahaha
Mir: Good advice from R3Dz and John S. Welcome to the magical world of harmonica. As we say in Americanized English: Hang in there. One of the hardest things to learn when you're starting out is to relax. You can't force a harmonica. Going easy and being patient is the way to go. Of course, if you have a piece of food or a hair stuck in the reed, that will stop the sound, but can be easily remedied with a plastic dental brush-pik (the sort of plastic toothpick sold under various brand names around the word), but blowing or drawing too hard, or not relaxing the lips and tongue to get a nice air pathway through the harmonica can also cause the reed to simply not play. When I was first starting out, I sent a harmonica back to Hohner with a warranty claim concering one of the reeds. Hohner sent it back with a note telling me that they found nothing wrong with it, along with some tips for getting nice tone. By the time the harmonica came back from Hohner I'd already figured out that I needed to relax more and "breath with" the instrument. That same harmonica is still in my set and plays very nicely. Same harmonica that arrived the day I first bought it, but the player has learned a thing or two. Welcome to the bluesharmonica.com world, and here's hoping you enjoy it as much as so many of us have.
DOUBLE POST- removed.
Guys guys... (loved all of your words, honestly, what a timing to read!)
BUT... I can proudly tell you that I did some first lessons with David and after my first meeting with single notes I could already clearly play the entire music line (tongue blocking) at the end of that lesson where David warned this would take weeks to get it (or is this a tactic to suggest you are better than the rest to just keep you going?. hahaha)
Ok so... just wanna say I am sure (don't mean to be arrogant here! lol) I was breathing soft enough .. I am sure.. I was sensitive enough with everything.. (I am not exactly a bulldozer ya know).. and I am really sure those holes were not good (unless ofcourse there was something IN it... like some dust or something.. that tooth thing is something to keep in mind for a try next time)
I sent the crossover back to the shop as well. So at the moment I have nothing anymore .. at some point the last few days I was close to giving it all up (but I hated that!) as I simply didn't seem to have any choice! I mean.. look at the experience of a total novice who never had any idea of a "broken reed" and then seeing a future of ONLY broken reeds, lack of tuning and frustration! At the mercy of a device you have no clue about! But *I*.. I want a working one that I can trust! I want to be sure it is not me failing but the device. AND.. the only way to get that I found out ... is having it customized! (lol.. )
And so.. Mir did a last check whether she could find a "customizer" reasonably close to home (Neth) and she found ONE (don't expect much in this small country) exclusively selling Seylers + 3 levels of customizing (= a heart thing!) and unlimited warranty. SO... I am now focussing on the Seydel 1847 Lightning with all its strong steel + the medium custumozing as that is making overbending a lot easier. Well.. THAT is what I mean .. I mean.. how the hk am I inspired to learn overbending when I ain't even sure about the ease of the device or whether it is even good enough (as a novice)?. i need durability as well and I am shocked reading it's a common problem to "blow them out" after months...
Right before I found both your lovely inspiring words I found something that made me happy as well....
Flattening the draw reed plate! http://www.hunterharp.com/what-every-player-including-a-novice-should-know-and-do-about-harp-setup/
Even *I* can do that (eyy not saying that I AM going to do that the first day.. I need at least a good harp for some weeksss before I ever...) ..
Ok.. so this for now I think, I haven't even slept so I should now...
PS: it might not have been clear enough but I am just focussing on this LIGHTNING.. I haven't bought it yet... I am just pondering about it.. the only thing I am a bit afraid of with that one . is that it is sooo heavy! (155 gram or so). And I should take one in the key of A ... (yeah.. looking back it's only good those hohners failed as I had them in the key of C and you need A for the first lessons at the least)
.. that I just got a message from the seller with the following words (about the crossover which I swore had a broken hole):
We have now received the harmonica back and the amount will be refunded. For information only, the model works properly. Often it has to do with blowing technique and placement, which can make the harmonica seem malfunctioning.
I want to give this just for information, that the harmonica really works fine. The amount will be refunded to the account.
****** Hard to believe honestly.. I wasn't only checking with my fingers but as well with puckering and noppes nada niente sound out of hole 2 with blowing AND drawing (I mean.. hours before that I COULD use that hole well with blowing only *******
If anyone can technically convince me THAT ^ is normal it might become a bit easier to believe...
@ and why did the seller leave out information about what was going on inside my harp? Is it because the device magically got working again when it arrived there? Which then means: I have to accept temporary random "locks" of certain holes .. cause that is normal (?)
I'll just pitch in for this as I customize harps (well I'm starting to get really into it) and I will say with 100% certainty that a new player will hate a custom level 3 overblow harp (they are much harder to play) !!
Also I'll add I have a lightning and that instrument out of the box is perfection (much like a crossover). I would highly recommend you don't customize it as a new player.
You're talking about overblows as if they're expected of you and there are players who've played 10 years and can't overblow. Bending is different, this should be manageable in 2-6 months time depending on your practice. Again, here a customized harp will actually hurt you because it's so sensitive that if your technique is slightly wrong it will jam the reed when a stock harp will allow for slightly poor technique (well at least much more than a customized one).
If you MUST have a customized I would say go for a level 1 with some light reed work and a straight custom comb (don't worry any descent customizer will not send you a broken harp so you at least know someone tested it and it plays right).
This is of course only my recommendation. In the end you do you my friend
p.s: a broken reed still makes sound, it just makes a sound that's out of tune and it will make sound right till it falls off the reed plate. if your reed's not playing it's either you or the reed is crooked. if it's not crooked and nothing is physically jamming it the only element left is you ! Usually a music store will have a tool to check harmonicas for bad reeds. you should try to track down one of these places and see if they can test what ever next harp you get with a broken reed ;P
Thanks so much, that was very useful info R3!
And so I decided to go for the Hohner crossover again but this time basic customized + extra sealing of the comb so I can clean it in an ultrasonic cleaner (just saw a great vid about cleaning this device in detail which totalled up gives me all the trust I need).
Might take some days before I have it...
Happy to help ;P. Don't give up and keep trying.
You may find this link usefull https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWzSTlU5Ldk
That was an interesting vid John. I was looking for such info recently but couldn't find anything about it..
I can only hope I will have a clear explanation one day about what exactly was going on when those holes entirely stopped working on my first 2 hohners. That even makes me now trying to absorb vids about "Basic Reed Gapping & Fine Tuning for Harmonicas" (vid can be found in the link I already shared here). I now get a bit of a feel for those reed setups and I see myself working on it in the (nearby) future. So it's good I get a Crossover instead of a Special 20. I need to be able to look and work beyond the surface which is I guess part of my nature as well. It's really hard to accept not knowing all the ins & outs of it.. in my mind it all doesn't make sense, it simply can't comprehend... and I hate it!
I think it's worth paying a bit more attention to the vid I was referring to in my last post (from the link I already shared here which I will do again) and this might make a difference for all newbies/novices who don't seem to get what is happening with their device ..
The article - What every player (including a novice) should know and do about harp setup - starts with this:
I read a lot of posts on Facebook from people who have bad experiences with harmonicas right out of the box. These people complain that the harp is out of tune out of the box (which I agree is bad), reeds break (FYI, you’re blowing too hard), the harp goes out of tune quickly (did I mention that you’re blowing too hard?), and/or that the harp’s response is uneven, perhaps to the point where some reeds don’t play. The last problem is something that can occur with any make or model of harmonica (short of a full-blown customized harp), and it’s also something that anyone, even a novice, can do something about at close to zero expense. Doing so is economical and empowering. Economical because a harp that doesn’t play right out of the box can often be made to play really well with very little work. Empowering because getting more control over the way your instruments play puts you in charge of the harp, not the other way around.
Why Do I Need to Set Up My Harp?
First a little bit about why any harmonica, high or low-priced, might need some setup work out of the box. (read further by clicking on the link)
Well this all doesn't exactly resonate very well with the video (from Lee) John was sharing in his last post in which it all came down to one thing: for a novice or partly intermediate these days it is absolutely unnecessary if not destructive to get their harp customized in any way (verrry black 'n white isn't it?)
Riddle solved but I am not happy with it.............
Practiced some hours on my new crossover and now 4 draw gets harder and harder to play.
It has to be excessive saliva clogging up the holes!
Such a disappointment.
Tapping it out constantly doesn't even help!
And now? How do I get rid of the spit? Will it be gone tomorrow just as it did when sending my harp back and seller's response that nothing was wrong with my harp? It WAS totally completely clogged up after all when returning..
.. or do I have to make a move myself now, which means: cleaning it.. unscrewing ... putting every part in the ultrasonic cleaner etc. go figure, honestly.. what a hassle to enjoy a harp like that.. or am I missing something?
I read some (really "some"?) people have the same saliva issue but nowhere to find HOW you might clean this easily...
Pffffffffffft :(
These sound like questions for David's subforum.
Thank you Eric.
I already found a thread on this board about it answered by David. Not that I was playing with head down at all but maybe I should be a little more conscious about gravity issues.
https://www.bluesharmonica.com/saliva_build_up
I have to beat it!
If I have to believe the Big Jake on youtube about it.. the saliva will dry up by itself after some time..
@ At least I can buy some cheap un-customized Special 20s now lol (which I will definitely do by the time needed...)
If it was the spit then it should be gone after almost 48 hours... but holes 2 and 3 hardly give a sound. So I don't know it anymore... I should open up the device but I am afraid this will become an ungoing battle ...
Spit dries up and can make the reeds stick. Try to play chords instead of single notes to unstick them when that happens. More times than not it will release after a few push of soft, warm breath goes through them. Spit is normal, how much depends on your kill level. New players tend to over spit but you'll get the hang of it eventually. When you're done playing you can gently tap the mouth end of your harp in your palm or on your jeans (you will see moisture left on your hand).
David recommends tilting the playing side of the harp slightly down and your head slightly up ( do you see what he's going for here lol ;P ). This way gravity will be on your side and less spit should go in. Also don't overthink this man, just play the damn thing. I sometimes get mine wet when I zone out and just play random rifts for a lil bit. I just tap em out and I rarely have a problem and when I do soft chordal playing releases my sticky reeds.
Keep on harping brother,
Chris
Lol I was thinking it's the sex working against me u know..
But you are right man! Just play without overthinking... I'll try Ill try..
It's good advice to do some chords as I admit I barely - if at all - do that!
@ hole 3 entirely stopped working!
We will see...
Your English is good as with most of the Dutch people. Have you tried just breathing through the harp. Try doing it with chords holes 123 first. Then move to the the hole in question. Breath gently from the back of your mouth through the harp. Also have a look at the FAQ in the menus I believe there is a response to this type of question. Good luck.