bends, overblows, etc. and tongue blocking
David, could you give a brief list of the things you do tongue blocking verses when you normally pucker. I know at times I have heard "pucker for bends", while it seems that at other times it seems that everything is done tongue blocked. I think I recall you saying years ago that you did not use overblows - did I dream that.
You can learn to get all bends with TB. For high blow bends, it helps to start with a low pitched harp - G, Low F, Low D, as the mouth cavity size for the blow bends is a little easier to find if the actual notes are lower in pitch.
Puckering is a more obvious embouchure than TB. Some players who learned to play pucker with minimal use of TB (and minimal exposure to what had been done with it already) weren't used to bending with TB and just assumed it was impossible, then relayed that viewpoint to others.
Hey All,
so is it safe to say that the lower pitched harps D;F;G would make sense for a beginner to learn tounge blocking on? And, is it also safe to say that the 3 hole draw is the best place to start because you can get 4 different tones from it?
on my "C" harp
I can bend with puckering and and can get the blow bends as well. When I switch to tongue block bending on the 3 draw, I am going from a nice 3 hole draw to a fully bent three hole draw. I skip everything in the middle. Obi One Kenobi (David Barrett) said that I need to relax the tongue and be able to move it as if there was a little man with a broom under it. I am not really sure how I am bending at all to tell you the truth.
When puckering the air flow is going over the tongue and I can manipulate the air flow with my tongue. But when I tongue block the air flow is starting on the side of my tongue and then rolling in over the middle/back section.
Questions that I have for you TB benders is this.
Any tips on how to relax the tongue?
How long did it take you to learn to TB bend?
Are you TB benders using magic or something? ;-)
For just plain tongue blocking, any key will do. If you're referring to bending with a tongue block, then the answer is that gold is where you find it.
In other words, everyone finds their first bend wherever it happens, and that could be on any key of harp. I suspect, though, that mid-pitched harps (such as D, C, or maybe Bb) are likely to work better than low pitched harps to find your first bends. The exception I would make is for the high blow bends (Holes 7 thru 10). For those bends, especially for tongue blocked bends, the low harps will make it a bit easier to find the right internal mouth shape to get the bend.
Draw 3 is probably not the best place to start because it's the hardest to control and can be the hardest to achieve as well (though again, everyone is different). I'd opt for a hole that offers a shallower bend, such as those found in Draw 4, 5, and 6. These tend to be easier to achieve and easier to control.
Germsnharp,
I finally am able to control my bend s whileTb'ing .I still need some practise BUT I found out what work for me and will explain it.
I learned to pucker bend and have been working in Tb'ing bending a few weeks and finally tonight I got it. Funny how hard it is until you get the feel just like when first bending with the pucker.
What I found you need to do which is different then pucker bending is this....
With your tongue on the harp using a A harp either try the 3 or 4 hole bends. the tongue has to go forward and hump up much more then when puckering. You actually must consciously feel the tongue going forward and the back of the tongue going down. You dont need to think about the back of the tongue. It feels the same as with puckering and you will adjust automatically. The front of the tongue is the key to get the right shape. You will then be able to control all the bends on the 3hole.
EDIT:
One other thing I just noticed is the top of the front part of my tongue moved close if not touches the roof of my mouth which the air travels around the side which helps me to get the correct shape and I feel the back going down.
EDIT2: The reason my tongue is closer to the roof of my mouth is because the umberture of the mouth changes when TB bending... after a day of trying to fgiure the difference is this.
Pucking your umberture is more of an oval shaped and the tongue feels more free to help with the bend...
With Tb'ing and THIS IS THE KEY I FOUND... Forget about the pucker Umberture...For TB bending which works for me is you need close up the space more up front while the back of the tongue drops....If you are too opened in front then you WONT be able to pull that bend dowd. This is why I felt my tongue getting closer to the roof of my mouth.
Let me know if this is helpful. Boy this feels good!
528hemi
I'm glad to hear that you're finding something that works.
however, closing up space anywhere close to the lips is something I'd avoid. The further back you can place the narrowing spot, the better your control and tone.
When I bend Holes 1, 2, 3and 3 with a tongue block, the front of my tongue does nothing at all aside from blocking the holes on the harp. The action is at the very back of my mouth, where the very back of the soft palate (the overhanging extension at the back of the roof of the mouth) and the surface of the tongue are able to make a sound like "K", as far back as it's possible to make that sound without gagging. Narrowing the airflow way back there will produce full, easily controlled bends.
For higher draw bends 4 5 and 6, I find that the "K" spot moves forward in my mouth, but it's still a matter of the tongue and the roof of the mouth collaborating to create a narrowing in the airflow, still well back from the front of the mouth.
Winslow,
Your explanation is much better then mine as I agree with what you say and that is exactly what I found to work.
Where the narrowing accurs is relative and hard to explain but I found that I could not bend the 4 5 and 6 until I narrowed the passage which definitely felt more frontal then when pucker bending. With lip pursing it is much easier or maybe less restrictive to manipulate the tongue to help with the bend.
But definitely I could not get the feel for TB bending until I consciously narrow my umbeture..Oncve I got the feel I could adjust for better tone. The narrowing as you mention is not happening at the lip so I probably am using the word " umberture" incorrectly. I definitely am not narrowing my lips but the passage up front for the 4 and 5 and 6 bends.
Thanks for clearing that up.
528hemi
I, and most traditional blues players (Piazza, Wilson, Clarke, Kashmar, Hummel, Portnoy, etc) tongue block all the time. A lot of these players pucker the 1 and their blow bends... though if you ask them they'll say the wish they could TB those as well. I'm trying to use more tongue blocking on hole 1 and am almost there on the 10+ bend. If you started in a pucker, like almost all of us did... some players will continue bending in a pucker for a while... switching to TB when they want the "TB" sound... commonly on holes 4 and above. Some players stay that way, such as Primich, DeLay and Butter... but most over time move into as close as possible to 100% TB. The only technique you can't do in a TB is the Junior Wells "Udl adl adl" type tonguing he commonly played on the 4 draw (listen to the V chord on the 4th chorus I believe it is of "Chitlin' Con Carne"). Players, like Ricci, choose to pucker for the speed of articulation... TB is just as fast for single notes, but you can articulate faster in a pucker if you're going for ultra speed... like Ricci does so well. I do not overbend... it hasn't called out to me... hope this clarifies some things for you.