Comparison of harps - Manji, Crossover, Seydel 1847
I posted part of this in my Special 20 thread, but I thought I'd put them separately in a thread of their own in case any one out there wants to know what a total newbie thinks of his harps. You silverbacks out there probably don't care what the kid thinks, but here it is...
Okay, my first Crossover showed up today, and as excited as I was to get it, I found myself disappointed.
The harp overall is slightly smaller than the Manji, but it has a much more open back due to the swooping flange on the backside. Looking at the two side-by-side, I get the impression that the Manji is more professionally made with tighter machining and tolerances. The Crossover's construction seems very similar to what you've come to expect from Hohner - kind of a rustic-looking traditional piece of pocketwear.
There are some improvements, though. The cover plates are mounted with four screws. There are no sharp nuts on the opposite side. The screws - like the Manji - appear to be mounted into the reedplate. The bamboo comb is a little rougher than the Manji, but feels more traditional and wood-like (as it is, of course). The holes are rounded over. The reedplate edges are smoothly machined and rounded, but it's edges lack the fine polish of the Manji. The key marking is stamped on the flange of the coverplate, and is a bit hard to read in dim light. The coverplates are typical Hohner, with side vents as usual in the Marine Band line.
The above things are aesthetics mostly, and in a dark room with your hand tucked around it, who cares? The main disappointment I found was in the playing of the harp itself. Now I've heard a lot of good things about this unit, from Joe Filisko on down. Maybe my expectations were too high, or maybe I'm just not very familiar with the way the Marine Bands play, but I found it lacking on first toot.
The harp seemed leaky on the low end - especially the two hole. I went side-by-side with the Manji on the two blow, just to see if I had an embouchure problem, but the Manji rang clear as a bell, and when I switched to the Crossover, I got nothing but air. Playing around with my embouchure got a note every now and then, but even then it sounded airy.
Bends on the low end were great, but six blow was very hard to bend as compared to my Manji and Special 20s. In fact, the high end overall was much tighter than the low end. It seems to me that the harp needs some reed work to balance everything out.
The overall sound is closer to what I'm used to on the Special 20s. The low end is smooth and dark. The "springy" effect I noted on the Manji is dampened here - which I admit I like better. The high end doesn't have the ringing overtones that I have noticed more recently on the Manji. I find those overtones annoying when playing the high end (mostly noticed recently as I've been practicing "Rollin' Rhumba"). Volume vs air pressure seems about the same overall as the Manji.
Maybe I'm not appreciating this harp enough - or maybe I just got a dud (or maybe I just don't know what the hell I'm talking about), but I'm not sure I'll be stocking up on these. I'll keep playing around to see if it get's better, or maybe I'll open it up and play with the reeds, but so far, I think the Manji is winning.
On to the Seydel.
Wow! Daddy likey!
This is a NICE harp. It is the biggest of the three harps - substantially bigger than the Crossover, and only slightly bigger than the Manji. Construction-wise, the comb is unique. A very smoothly worked piece of hard maple, the front of the comb is fully sealed with a shiny lacquer, making the comb as smooth as my Special 20 plastic combs. I wonder how long the finish will last, though, with constant play. The holes are rounded - rather than square, and the edges are smoothed over. The key marking is on the side of the comb, but very small and probably hard to read in dim light.
The stainless steel reed plate is not quite as smoothly machined as the Manji, and on par with the Crossover. It is secured to the comb by 5 screws, along with the two cover screws. The cover plates are secured with one screw on each end, threaded into a screw-head long nut, just as the Crossover and Manji, so no sharp nuts or protruding screws. The screws are mid-point on the cover flanges.
The cover plates are VERY smooth, and lack the hole numbers. I've never figured out why professional harps have hole numbers. I think if you are spending $50 on up for a harp, you're probably at the point where you know where the holes are. I guess $90 is considered the spend point where they are not necessary, as this is the most expensive of the three harps. Unlike the Crossover and Manji, these cover plates are not vented, but they are belled open in the back and nicely gapped.
One problem with the cover plates I noted immediately when trying to play is that because of the rounded end where the flange meets the plate, the stamping leaves a tiny gap between the reed plate and the cover. As it's the weekend and I haven't shaved, the first thing that happened was I snagged a whisker. Not bad, but it was a surprise. The Crossover and Manji cover plate designs reduce this problem (I haven't had it happen yet).
Winslow is right about the stainless reeds. I couldn't tell the difference in sound between them and the brass reeds. The 3 blow was a little tight out of the box, but the rest of the notes felt fairly even. Bends were easy, but not quite as easy as the Crossover, and the six bend was a little harder to pull. High end bends are very nice, and the 10 bend in particular came right out with ease. The harp doesn't seem quite as easy to squeal as the Manji on the upper end.
The sound is a little darker than the Manji, and more comparable to the Crossover and Special 20 on the mid-range. The low end is springy, but dampens quickly, longer than the Crossover, but much quicker than the Manji. On the high end, the tone doesn't have the squealy overtones that the Manji exhibits, but is a bit more colorful on the high frequency overtones than the Crossover.
I really like the playability of this harp. It very much reminds me of the feel of the Special 20, though heavier and definitely larger. Even though I have warmed a little to the Crossover, I'm still leaning more toward the Manji and the Seydel. Both are much more playable to me, and more responsive on the low end where most people spend the most time.
We'll see which one I end up spending the most time with in the future.
I hope my personal reviews of these three harps helps folks who might be wondering about what they are like. These opinions - of course - are my own, and I'm sure many of you won't agree with my experience. All three are nice harps, and I think any one of the choices would make a harp player happy that they made the right choice.
Good luck!
Thanks for taking the time to give us your thoughts. I find it fascinating to see/hear how different people take to different harps - I guess that's why we aren't all chasing the same life partner!!!
I haven't tried the Manji or Crossover but finally after trying many others I do not feel the need to go beyond my Seydels. They feel and sound comfortable for me!!! ANd that's who I'm playing for!! Good comprehensive reviews that I am sure will help others in their quest.
I poked fun at one of our members when he brought up the Manji - joking about the Toyota problems (I think he's still mad at me). Then I battled Winslow over whether stainless steel was any good in a harp.
So what happens?
My two favorite harps so far after trying them out are the Manji and the Seydel.
I should just shut up sometimes...
Got a new Marine Band 1896, but I won't buy another. First problem - the corners are sharp, so I was getting a sore patch on my lip. I filed the corner, so that's solved. Now the reed plate is bothering me because it sticks out beyond the cover plate and comb, so that makes me a bit sore. Finally, the comb is swelling a bit because it's wet and sticks aout between the holes, also making me a bit sore. Next time, I'll get a Special 20 or a Manji, they are much smoother on the mouth. Anyone else had these problems?
Sounds like you got an old-stock Marine Band. New ones are sealed against swelling. And the reedplates jutting out was intended to compensate for that in advance. Newer Marine Bands don't do that. Corners are still sharp, though. I'd recommend the Crossover as an excellent harmonica that retains the classic Marine Band look and sound while eliminating the problems you cite, plus a few others.
I had Pro Harp for a long time and was pretty happy with it. Good sound, only issues were metallic taste from reed plate and peeling black paint. That was before today, when I got Special 20. Special 20 feels smooth and effortless, very little air required to produce sound. It's miles better than Pro Harp.
I think from now on all my harps will be Special 20
Thanks for the advice. It was in the latest packaging at the latest price, so I'm disappointed if it's old stock. I might try a Crossover next time, although they are more expensive.
Interestingly, the Marine Band I bought last May and complained about is now my favourite harp. I smoothed down the corner and I now find the slightly jutting comb a help in moving around the harp, rather than a hinderance.
So funny to see these zombie threads pop back up from ten years ago.
They remind me what a bloviating dummy I can be...
That said, Seydel is still my harp of choice. Love these things! I have no idea what happened to my Manji. It must be in a drawer somewhere. I have a full set of Crossovers, but never play them.
I miss Hank. Whatever happened to him?
Wait, there I go bloviating again...
My package from Coast to Coast arrived this morning. I was disappointed to find only the Manji in the package. The packing slip says both were shipped, so I'm hoping it was just a screwup on Coast to Coast's side. I left them a voice mail and email asking for info.
As to the Manji, my first impressions were pretty good. Obviously I'm coming at this from the perspective of a total newbie. My only experience on other harps comes from a few years of playing the Special20s - and as an entry-level player even with those.
The Manji looks very well built. The comb is a unique looking and feeling composite. The back is nice and open. The hole openings are slightly recessed as you would expect from a wood-comb harp. The edges are nicely machined and rounded. The cover screws are very nicely positioned in the front of the harp, and there are no sharp nuts on one side. There actually are separate cover screws for both sides of the harp. The screws themselves are threaded into the reed plate. In addition to the four cover plate screws, the reed plates are firmly screwed together across the comb with eight screws.
Putting the thing in my mouth, the first thing I noticed was the ultra smoothness of the cover plates and the roughness of the comb. The cover plate numbers are laser etched, not stamped as my Special 20s are. So the immediate sensation is silky smooth on the lips. I find the harp glides better between my lips and doesn't dry out as quickly, a problem I've been having with my Special 20s. The comb, on the other hand, is totally new to me, especially after playing the plastic combs on the Special 20. It's going to take some getting used to for me to work my tongue with the same dexterity across the rough comb - but that is what I expected, and would be the same with the Crossover and the 1847 I'm sure.
As I'm not an expert yet with a harp-tuned ear, I can only comment somewhat arbitrarily on the sound and playability. The sound is a bit more "springy" on the resonance than the Special 20, especially on the low end. The high end plays easier than my Special 20s. Overall, the sound seems brighter, with higher frequency overtones. The bends are right there, and feel slightly easier to me than on my Special 20s (my Special 20 harps are very well broken in, and the Manji seems to bend easier out of the box even still). The Manji also seems slightly louder with the same air pressure on the high end, but slightly softer on the low end than the Special 20s. The harp is very tight, with no noticeable leaks.
All-in-all, I really like the harp. I wish I had the Crossover to compare it to, but maybe later this week I'll be able to. I could easily see myself getting a full set of these.