First chromatic: solo or orchestra tuning?
After a few days of deep dive research on which model to get i settled for a Seydel Saxony*.
What makes me a greater headache is deciding, which tuning to get: solo (standard) tuning or orchestra tuning (2 extra holes on the bottom, two missing ones on the top end). Atm i gravitate more towards the orchestra tuning (as i think i would miss the few lower notes more than the top most s̶q̶u̶e̶e̶k̶s̶ notes, but i am a very beginner and not sure).
For me 16 or 14 holes are no option for several reasons (and i think i do not want a tenor).
Some input/opinions about that would be very welcome.
Edit/P.S.: Also, what mouthpice would you prefere, trapezoid or halfmoon shaped?
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*Mostly for non blues stuff (just for having fun playing random stuff i like from genres all over the place), I am not a big fan of the sound of chromatic monica for blues *hides*.
Thx :)
As for instructional material i think it will be not hard to translate to an orchestra tuned instrument (mostly it is just moving everything two holes up if i am not mistaken?).
For Folk stuff i (will) use diatonics (easy 3rd tuning). I love Joel Andersson style, that is/will be my diatonic endgame. First i need to learn the instrument tho, am at the very beginning but making slow progress).
On the chromatic I want to play mostly (not too complex) melodies for fun and for myself (not planning on "getting too serious". Getting old ... learning to play "easy" melodies might get hard enough). I love Japanese animation movies and series, so it will be mostly melodies from them (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AHId4zbxsU) ... the sweet melancholic sound of chromatic harmonica is to my ears very beautiful with that. Looking into some sheet music and tabs i got the impression, that much of it fits nic(er) into orchestra tuning range, but inexperienced as i am i might be wrong. It really is hard to decide.
Edit: Considering that i plan to play with tabs and not plan to learn every possible scale by heart etc... maybe even spiral tuning might be an idea (but maybe a bad one *scratches his head).
Nice duet on "Always With Me." Don't be discouraged if it takes a while for you to get tone like that on the chromatic. Re solo vs. orchestra tuning, bear in mind that the range of the 12-hole solo C chromatic is the same as for standard concert flute, so if you find sheet music for flute for your favorite tunes, that'll work. If, on the other hand, you have sheet music for tunes that go below middle C to G3, then perhaps the orchestra tuning will be best for you. I'm betting a future Forum post, however, that within a year or two you've purchased one of each!
" Don't be discouraged if it takes a while for you to get tone like that on the chromatic"
Yeah, i will not even come close for a long long time, but that is no big deal, i am not chased. Also i am pretty sure there is quite a bit of work done in post on the tone in this video (as in most chromatic harmonica videos on youtube).
As for the tuning, i try to hold back my "WANT NOW!" demon a few days and started going through more of the sheet music i have, to see, what fits best. Almost all i came across so far could be played on both.
"I'm betting a future Forum post, however, that within a year or two you've purchased one of each!"
:D Most likely, yes, but atm my money is hardly enough for one of them (that is why i want to pick the right one, will need to stick to it quite some time). (I know there are cheaper ones, but i kinda fell in love with the saxony after my research and it is just within my budget).
Thx again for your time :)
Orchestra and solo are the same tuning, just starting at different points.
Solo tuning has the same note layout for as many octaves (or partial octaves) in its range.
Orchestra tuning (and 14-hole chromatics) starts on G below middle C insterad of on middle C - that's the partial octave.
The advantage it offers for melody playing is that you have those notes for when the melody goes below C, without having to invest in a huge 16-holer.
The *potential* disadvantage, at least on the 12-hole Orchestra, is that you miss having the top notes. But not all players like or use those top notes. Players like Stevie Wonder and Toots Thielemans do use them.
But blues chromatic tends to focus on the low and middle range, so having those low notes instead of high notes isn't a big sacrifice.
That said, the really low notes, the ones you get on a 16-holer, are really useful when playing octaves in third position.
However, you can play credible third position on an Orchestra. Here's Solstice, a tune I wrote years ago for David's old HarmonicaSessions zine, played on a Saxony Orchestra. (I also played version in S uzuki SCX-56, Sirius 56, and Hohner Chrometta 14 models, in a comparative review.)
An alternative would be a Low C 12-hole. Hohner correctly calls these tenors, while oters call them Baritones (which would be another octave lower if the term were to be used correctly).
:)
I now ordered an orchestra tuned one (i think from my sheet music review, that i can make more use of the few lower notes). I also downloaded musescore software that makes it very easy to transpose stuff if needed (and also has a harmonica tab plugin ... will try to add orchestra tuned instrument to it, source code seems to be quite easy to understand).
Next step (besides learning and playing of course): Make myself some wooden covers for the saxony.
@Winslow Yerxa: You must hear that very often (and might be sick of it), still gonna say it: I really like your Harmonic Books!
Great discussion. As always, Winslow has the best, comprehensive, understandable, explanation. But after reviewing all of this, I'm now desparately trying to keep my credit card from jumping out of my pocket as I resist the urge to add an orchestra-tuned or 13-hole with the lower notes to my collection!
"desparately trying to keep my credit card from jumping out of my pocket"
I almost feel sorry^^
The more i think of it the more i think the orchestra tuning kinda hits a "sweet spot" (for me ... at least in theory). Those missing high notes sound shrill and unpleasant to me even with such great players as Stevie Wonder (i would like much of his stuff more if it was a little lower. Just personal taste of course). The missing lower notes on the other hand... there is kind of a break point (well, more a "transition" over a few tones) around the G3 for my ear, where lower tones on the Harmonica sound quite a bit different to higher ones. I like that tone but to my ears it can sound "out of place" sometimes if jumps from high to low are too big. (Hard to exactly explain what i mean, english is not my first language, sorry).
Of course a 14 hole (and even more) a 16 hole offers more but ... form factor (to me the pocketable size of harmonicas is one important selling point and 12 holes Saxony seems to be just small enough ... hope that will remain true when i will finally hold it in my hand, can just judge it from photos and videos so far).
All that is of course just the humble observations of someone who has in reality close to no clue what he is talking about (me), so take all that with a rock of salt.
Could not resist and bought me a 16 hole one, too, for not much money: An old Hohner Chromonica (Chromonika III, said to be 870 Series? I do not know what that means (and did not find out so far) ... looks to me like a normal Chromonika 280 (with a "870" engraved on one cover flap, opposit side of the "C").
What made me choose this one (over the many others available...I don't know how it is elsewhere, but here in Germany these old Chromonikas are practically thrown at you) was the good optical condition, no (visible) split of the comb and the star on the back cover is not just an outline but "filled" and i did not see that very often so far (never on a Chromonika)... might be an early Model? Might also mean nothing, tho ... I just noticed it but have no clue^^. It comes in this wooden box with fake burl pattern and yellow lining, so it should be pre 1950 (?).
I do not expect it to be playable, but it seemed to be a nice restauration project... making it airtight, maybe sealing the wooden comb (maybe with canauberwax), tune it, revalve it, gap it etc... Never did any of this before so it might be a nice learning project i guess, and if i fail not much money will be lost.
Yes, that old Chromonkia III is an early one. It's the same thing as the one marketed as the "64" (with that number proominent on the top cover) and the model number of 280 in the English speaking world. I'm not familiar with the 870 number. There are several differences in both design and materials from the modern 280, which evelved in several stages from the early 1950s to the present.
You may also find you need to replace the windsaver valves. On the oldest chromatics, these were leather, which can be reconditioned. Later ones use two-layer plastic valves, which may need to be replaced.
Avoid cleaning discoloration from the reeds; this can rob it of its tone. If the wooden comb is too damaged, you may still be able to buy a replacement from the Hohner C-shop. Replacing nails with M1.6 12mm screws can be a worthwhile upgrade
It will take a few days until it arrives, so i do not know yet how good the condition will be on the inside. Not removing discoloration from the reeds is a very good advice tho. :)
Replacing the nails will be one of the first things to do.
Still was not able to find out more about the 870 Number, only found very little evidence about its existence online: https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/9478673-harmonica-hohner-chromonica-i-i-i this one looks close to the one that is on its way to me.... number 870 and the star on the bottom cover is "filled" instead of just an outline.
Maybe the 870 has some special tuning ... A=435Hz or something?
Edit: Ha, found something on: https://www.facebook.com/groups/213998285292044/posts/6343737865651358/ (about a Hohner Orchester, tho)
"[...] Apart from this, it is also special that those that were released at that time* for the German market were tuned to 435 Hz as stated on the box label "870 Schwingungen" (870 cycles = 435 Hz). It also has 870 engraved on the top reedplate. Information obtained directly from Pat Missin [...]" *30's
The Saxony arrived and i fiddled around with it for some time. It is indeed a very nice instrument... but much more different in feel and handling from diatonic than anticipated. For now i will concentrate on diatonic (and come back chromatic later) i think.
Interesting information about the 870.
The chromatic is different from diatonic, it's true.
However.
You can develop a central way of breathing that works for both.
I learned both insturments more or less simutaneously as a teenager and never had a problem.
You can develop that central approach, then dapt it to the individual character of each instrument.
Don't worry about chromatic wrecking yoiur diatonic progress. And that Saxony won't be happy being stuck in a drawer. Start enjoying the nice contrast now by trying out David's first Blues Chromatic lesson here on the site, with his study song "No Sweat." Simple single-note stuff, and no use of the button. But a great introduction to why the chromatic should be part of every blues player's vocabulary.
Buruusu:
I've been playing chromatic for a while, mostly blues, but also some pop and trad jazz. And I've played 8, 10, 12 and 16-hole chromatics, including some 12-holes in different keys. As they say, "Different strokes for different folks," but for what it might be worth, my ideas:
1. Most in-person and on-line teachers use a 12-hole standard-tuned (solo) C chromatic for lessons. This includes David. So if you're starting out on chromatic and plan to take lessons, go with the solo tuning.
2. If you're planning to focus on Celtic and folk tunes, having the extra holes on the bottom might be a good thing, particularly when playing in the key of C, and using the B (major 7th note) as a turnaround. But for any style that uses octaves, you'll lose one or two pairs. E.g., some tunes use the 7/11 blow or draw ocatave. The 12-hole in "orchestra" tuning is more like a 10-hole with two lower sets of reeds added.
3. The chromatics I use the most are the Hohner CX-12s, with a great half-moon mouthpiece, and round holes. Works best for me. And to my mind, the round holes are more comfortable for blues chording and octaves than square holes. The rounded mouthpiece works better for me than the more squared-off mouthpiece shape of the other Hohner models, and I also have a Suzuki chromatic with the more rounded mouthpiece. But that's just me. Whatever shape you choose, once you've played it a lot, that will probably become the best shape for you.
Best wishes for a ton of fun for years to come on the chromatic. It's a very different instrument, and one that will provide a lot of opportunities for musical enjoyment.