Marine Band 1896 Questions
I just received my new Marine Band 1896 Key of G Harmonica today. Prior to this I was playing on the Hohner Special 20 Key of A. I have noticed that the Marine Band is slightly smaler with several other differences. Nothing that I dislike but I have noticed that performing the 3 draw on my special 20 is much easier that on the Marine Band. Is this common or does this have to do anything with it being in the Key of G on the Marine Band? Also, on the Marine Band every once in a while when I am performing a 1234 hole blow and draw I can hear a little click. Does anyone know what the click may be?
Thank You
I am also a beginner, so I cannot really help. I too have questions about the Marine Band 1896. I too have a Special 20 and wonder at the comparison. I too await answers to questions.
In the absence of answers from authoritative persons, we shall have to speculate.
My speculation is that the Marine Band 1896 is a relic, long ago surpassed by better thinking and better materials, and maintained in production only to please purists and romanticizers. The purists irrationally cleave to the notion that the sound of the Marine Band 1896 is the sound that was, for better or worse, the sound of the old time legends. Their hardships mastering this clunker are rightly our hardships too, so get over it and rasp your tongue raw on the inadequately sealed pear wood (mine is not sealed at all, out of the box) as you struggle to master tongue-blocking and bending in highly and unnecessarily unfavourable circumstances and pay your dues. Self-evidently, this view is idiotic.
The other view is that of those who romanticize the sound of the MB 1896, treasuring every inadequate, ill-conceived and deprecated detail of its design. The argument reduces to a mere insistence that the sound of the legends should be exactly preserved because it was the sound of the legends. The argument ignores the liklihood that if other options existed at that time, some or many would certainly have taken them. It sets up as ideal a sound drawn from a sample range consisting of, for all intents and purposes, exactly one sound. It was first, so it is best. Considered closely, it is revealed as no more valid than the argument of Nietzsche's untermensch, a clear expression of resentiment directed at others who are not similarly subdued merely by the brute fact of primacy and then forcibly addicted to the sound that first left its mark upon their aural sensibilities. Like the first dye into new wool, it is a permanent tincture that can never be removed and which irrationally yet necessarily tinges all subsequent impressions or judgements thenceforth formed.
This is my speculation. I just bought one, and its ergonomic shortcomings - both intended and in consequence of apparently shoddy production - are so great as to beggar belief. Hohner has taken my money under false pretences on several occasions - when buying more or less dysfunctional lesser instruments from their enthusiast range - but this occasion, the purchase of a Marine Band 1896 in A to do these classes - takes the cake. I will say, the Special 20 I bought I very much enjoy, but it wasn't in the key needed for these lessons so I had to go out and buy another. I'm afraid my next will be another brand.
As an afterword, and in anticipation a certain amount of critique, one needs to be an expert player to make definitive evaluations of harmonicas. One does not need to be an expert player to penetrate and refute some of the fuzzy thinking in and around harmonica culture. It seems to me the Marine Band 1896 is a relic that remains in production for poor reasons. If Hohner are going to make them, at least make them properly, even if only according to their own standards. The complete lack of sealant on the front of the comb in my brand new MB 1896 effectively renders it less useful than a paperweight, and considerably more dangerous.
My real and only point, apart from issues in production quality, is that it seems to me beginners should be strongly warned off the Marine Band 1896. Leave it to accomplished players and harp afficionados.
Todd, a lower key harp will bend a bit differently.With experience you learn to adjust to the difference in response between lower and higher keys.
Also, different individual harp even in the same model and key will be adjusted a little differently and thus will respond differently. The difference you experience is likely no more than that. The reeds on the Special 20 and Marine Band are the same, just delivered in a different wrapper.
Larry, tell us how you really feel about the Marine Band! It represents the height of technology - for the late 19th century. I grew up playing it and I feel that the recent ones are the best I've experienced. Good sealing, screw assembly and comb finishing as on the Crossover are all worthy, but in moments of cheapness I've bought recent Marine Bands and liked them - along with the many other models I also play.
Yes, well, I know I am a beginner, but I feel my analysis is about right! There are better instruments for beginners, and yep - the best the 19th century had to offer - says it all! Well, maybe the best, maybe not, because Seydel had their own offerings apparently a lot earlier than 1896!
I admit an element of frustration motivated my post above, and as detailed elsewhere, where you made very helpful comments, the one I bought virtually had no sealant on the comb, and rasped the tongue. As to that, I have adapted your ideas to my immediate circumstances and fancy that the problems have been more or less completely solved! Well, I say solved, but possibly at the expense of making blues in E highly carcinogenic. I didn't use shellac, ss recommended, but Sally Hansen Advanced 'Hard as Nails' Fingernail Strengthener, which has a delightful hard and glossy finish, but which, for now at least, continues to emit what could well be toxic and cancer-inducing fumes. Well, I gave up smoking a long time ago, but a blues man's life is supposed to be on the edge, right? From now on, blues in E - once I have learnt to play, of course - may very well kill me.
The 1896 currently is a great harps. It's one of Hohners handmade models. That means it's assembled, adjusted and tuned by hand. Other models in this the handmade series are the Special 20, Golden Melody, Rocket and Marine Band Deluxe. Winslow is correct about the reeds being the same. Also Winslow stated that they're packaged differently. The other difference is they are all tuned. I won't go into the tuning difference now because of how involved it would be to explain. But if you pay attention to the names of each harp you'll understand that the MB Deluxe and also the Special 20, and Rocket are similar to the Marine Band. In fact look at The Special 20 cover and it says Special 20 Marine Band. The Marine Band has been the go to harp for quite some time. In fact the only reason (I think) it's still not mentioned is the push Hohner USA has put on the Crossover. The Crossover is endorsed by David simply because it's a great harp. Personally it's my favorite harp along with the Deluxe. My original set are all Marine Bands hot rodded by Richard Sleigh. Joe Filisko has mentioned that every major recording prior to the new handmade harps with screws are played on the Marine Band. I would venture to say that many of the pro harp players use Marine Bands. I know for certain that Kim Wilson, Dennis Gruenling, Joe Filisko, and Richard Sleigh play them quite a bit. David has quite a set of Marine Bands hot rodded by Joe Filisko. The only draw back to the the Marine Band is the nails. The covers and the plates are secured with nails making them more involved in taking them apart to work on them. There is an easy way to do that and Andrew Zajac has a nice instructional video on this (he's a Hohner Certified Customizer) The Marine Band is a great harp. However all harmonicas are adjusted by hand. The gaps are set by hand. That's done very rapidly and these can have reeds that don't respond as well as others. That's why a lot of players contact a customizer and buy harps from them. Custom harps are more expensive. In my opinion they're worth it (I'm not saying that because I customize harps). The MB Deluxe, Crossover and Rocket are great options to look at. If your budget allows buy one of each of those models in the same key and try them to see what you like.
FYI: It was reported earlier by Andrew Lord that I quit doing harps. That was due to health issues. I'm feeling much better these days but I've got a huge back log. Curently the orders I have to do will take me until June. That's was in relation to not being able to work during health issues. I'm happy to say I've even got a couple of harp to do for Mr. Lord. If anyone would like to contact me for any reason you can reach me jonharl@mac.com.
Like I've said. "You just can't have too many hartmonicas". However my wife may have a different opinion.
..and who could dispute the long established preference of expert players and customizers? Not I, said the door mouse. But who could recommend the Marine Band 1896 as the best choice, or even the nearly best choice, given the range available today, for beginners? Well perhaps, ventured the door mouse, plucking up his courage - for he knew it might appear to be the height of impertinence not only to insist that one question not be confounded with another, but also to stand by his view upon that original question despite apparently authoritative pronouncement upon a wholly other and separate question - perhaps, he tentatively ventured, not you?
I thought some information would be helpful to those trying to choose a harp. i didn't endorse any model. There are a lot of harps on the market today that play very well. For a little background on myself. I've been playing harp for about 18 years. For 15 of those years I took lessons from Dave. I'm fairly entrenched in the San Francisco Bay area harp community thanks to my association with Dave. I have had a lot of different harmonicas. At one time I counted them just for fun. At that time I had 96. Not bragging, just complusive and looking for the best harp. I can tell you the ones I don't really care for. I'm available to talk shop anytime to anyone. Please feel free to give me a call or email.
This is a very friendly community. What I write is my opinion. I'm not the expert. I would defer to Dave, Winslow, Kinya, Joe Filisko and Richard Sleigh. Please don't take offence at anything I'm writing. I'm not intentionally trying to be condescending, only help. I do prefer verbal communication over posts. They're so many ways to interpet the written word and I'm certainly not educated in the writing field. I apologize for leading the conversation astray.
Larrybaby I really thought your posts were well thought out and had value. I had no intention to correct you. In fact, sadly, I just started to write about the Hohner handmade harps and went perfectionist. My opinion is I would buy a stock MB but I would only buy one if it was a custom MB set up by Richard Sleigh or Joe Spiers.
Your MB without any kind of sealer is not the newest model. It appears you received some old stock. Also the MB out of the box is less than ideal. The great part about the MB is the reed plates/reeds. It's Hohners least expensive model of the handmades. It's always been intended to be inexpensive. There are better modela to choose. Including certain Seydel and Suzuki harps.
Hohner used the term "Handmade" awhile back to distinguish the Marine Band, Golden Melody, and Special 20 from the MS or Modular Series they were pushing in the mid-1990s.
MS-harps used different reeds (first shorter, and then, to good advantage, longer) than the handmades and were intended to be made entirely by automation (this never succeeded completely). Parts from all MS harps – reedplates, coves, and combs – were completely interchangeable among models and the MS series was intended to eventually replace all existing models. (In the mid-1990s the CEO of Hohner Germany told me he expected the Marine Band to be around for at least 15 more years. Here we are 20 years later and the MB series is stronger than ever!)
The MS series included several existing models that were converted to MS - The Meisterklasse, Blues Harp, and, at least in Europe, MS Marine Bands and MS Special 20s.
However, there was a strong backlash in the US against converting the MB and SP20 to MS, and those versions were never marketed in North America. And the "Handmade" designation was adopted to capitalize on the distinction.
With the introduction of the Marine Band Deluxe (recently discontinued in North America but still made and sold in Europe), Crossover, and Thunderbird (essentially the Crossover in low tunings with modified bottom cover) Hohner dropped the "Handmade" badge and put those models in the "Marine Band" series.
They placed the Special 20 in the "Progressive" series (the new ones say"Progressive" on the covers instead of "Marine Band"), along with the Rocket and Golden Melody - all plastic-combed instruments that share reed design with the Marine Band series.
The MS series continues but no longer receives the marketing push it once did.
You see I learn something new everday. I haven't bought a Marine Band Special 20 in years.
:o) Thanks Jon also for beng both generous and patient with me!
I appreciated your post re the virtues of the MB very much, and also Winslow's. You guys blow me away with your insight, knowledge, generosity and patience.
Well, my MB 1896 might have been slightly old stock. Instead of the Blues Harmonica Free Lessons coupon code being printed on the little booklet, as with my recent Special 20 purchase, there was no booklet, and the coupon code was printed on, well, a little coupon, inserted into the box.
There were the faintest patches, very thin, of some kind of varnish or coating, mainly on the ends. It was as if it had been worn off lmost completely, or never properly applied. The wood sucked moisture off my tongue. In fact, I've taken it easy for a couple of dats to give my sore tongue a rest.
In the meantime, I carefully followed a suggestion by Winslow of rubbing back the sharp tine edges - I used the inside edge of the curve on the pointy end of a nail file, being careful not to allow the tip inadvertently to score the surface inside the holes.
Then, I used some glossy finish fingernail strengthener - thinly applied, 3 coats. Now, after a couple of days it has actually ceased giving off noxious fumes and the tongue slides over it nicely!
AND...
For the record - I NOW THINK I LIKE THE SOUND BETTER THAN THE SPECIAL 20!!!! (Though the SP20 somehow seems easier to bend - odd if it has the same reeds).
So, I now like my Marine Band 1896!
The only other comfort issue is the front edge of the reed plates. In my beginer mind, itis hard to see how it made sense to allow them to overhang the comb when that adds tothe difficulty of sealing at the edge f the mouth. It is beginning to seem to me, however, that they do something to give good guidance, and perhaps the lips should not be moving up and down on them and only across in any case.
I confess I sought to play the big-mouthed beginner and provoke a discussion. I saw that the original thread had received no replies. You guys have been awesome, super-informative, patient and kind, and I thank you for it!!!
Sorry aboout the dumb name. Just call me larry :)
Differences in bending despite having the same reeds:
The same reeds can be adjusted differently, which affects both general response and bending response in particular.
Being in a different key (if it is) also affects how you approach the bend.
Also, airtightness can have an effect, and pearwood (which expands and contracts with moisture) and nailed construction both affect airtightness.
Yes thanks, Winslow, that makes sense. The Special 20 is actually F and the Marine Band 1896 is A. Neither have as yet been opened and tweaked in any way. I will just stick to the basics. No doubt when the time comes for adjustments, that will emerge from the course itself.
I had a fairly similar experience when I started playing harmonica. Based on the recomendation of the guy in the music store I bought the special 20 in C (as he said it was the most common). Logged on for my free trail and was frustrated by the need to have purchased an A harp. I noodled a bit with the lesson in C but thought I'd venture into the wide web to see if I could make some progress on my C. After about 6 months or so I felt that I had learned a few songs (folk songs and kids songs) and I wanted to make the cool sounds I heard in blues harmonica songs. So I broke down and bought the A.
Not wanting to drop the cash for a crossover, I wrestled with the idea should I get the special 20 or the MB. On the one hand I knew the special 20, it was my first and I figured a different key would be similar. On the other it might be good to find out if I liked something different. In the end I bought the MB. I get back to my car and bust it open, super excited to have the A harp for lessons. Put the thing in my mouth and BLAM my tounge and lips feel like I've just tried to kiss a steak knife. I was soooo taken back by the discomfort I was feeling. Tounge blocking hurt, puckering wasn't much better. Those pointy sharp edges on the cover plates, were they designed to slice lips on purpose?!? Not to mention I had never had my mustache hairs pulled in my life. The first time that happend I cried like a little girl. "OH MAN", I thought for sure I had bought a defective harp. A quick search on the web proved otherwise the MB is well known for its painful characteristics.
All that being said, I could hear a difference in the harps that was something more than a difference in key. The MB had this raspy sound that just sounded cool. Suspecting that I was rationalizing the painful purchase I asked my wife to confirm the sound. Indeed she could hear it too. The SP20 was bright and MB raspy and gritty. I believe this is refered to as 'tuning' and I love the sound of the MB. Another 6 months down the road and I barely remembered my initial experience with the MB, and I loved learning and practicing the first 2 study songs here. They were fun, challanging and sounded soooo good! I'm glad I bought the MB and stuck with it (though I did start trimming my mustache shorter because DAMN). I still noodle around with my special 20 and play it from time to time, but its not my favorite harp to play (thats reserved for the crossover i just got as a christmas bonus from work :))
To answer the OP question about the click, mine does this too particularly if I draw quite hard (if I attack the 1 draw it'll click every time). I've read that this is actually the reed connecting with the cover plate and is why low harps (like the thunderbird) have a custom bottom cover that is a bit deeper to allow the reed to sound without clanking on the plate. To confirm I've played the 1 draw gently and there is no click, 1 2 3 draw gently no click. Attack them hard it clicks every time.
Hi, I am a harmonica beginner and I just bought my new hohner marine band harmonica. It sounds great except the 3rd hole which is heard like 4th or not at all. Just an airy sound.
Is there something I can do?
Thanks!
The Hohner 1896 Marine Band is a good harmonica, and Hohner's quality control is pretty good these days. (See, e.g., the discussion from a few years ago, above.) And if you're just starting, you may not be comfortable starting out by disassembling your new harp, checking gaps and reed shapes, plinking the reeds to check tuning, etc. (Unless you work in a dental lab or something, and this sort of thing comes naturally.) So ...
Before you worry about whether or not you have some sort of defect in the harmonica, be sure to carefully go through David's excellent introductory lessons, lessons on breathing, lessons on getting strong and clear single-hole sounds, etc. The breath is the key to everything.
E.g., when I first started (seven or so years ago) I had a D Special 20 that I was sure had a defective 8 draw reed. I actually sent it back to Hohner, and they sent it back with a note that they couldn't find anything wrong with the reed, but that perhaps I needed to try starting more quietly. I still have that harp, and beginning about six months after Hohner sent it back, and still today, the 8 draw reed sounds great!
Bottom line: Your own body, e.g., lungs, tongue, lips, head, throat, etc., are as much a part of the instrument as the reeds, comb, plates, covers, etc. Which when you think about it is a wonderful thing!
Good luck, and be sure to report back to all of us as you go through the journey.
UkuleleRob65 thanks a lot for your long advice. Your knowledge is very useful for begginers like me. I will be back. Have a nice day!
katsam: Also, if you're just beginning, one of the really fun things about harmonica is that you stick it in your mouth, so you can't see anything about what's actually going on. E.g., with piano you know what keys you're pounding. With guitar, banjo, ukulele, and even clarinet and flute, you can see where your fingers are. When I re-read your comment about nothing coming out of the 3, or the 3 sounding like the 4, I wondered whether or not you're getting used to figuring out just what your tongue and lips are doing in there, by listening to what comes out. A good start is figure out how to play the different reeds' notes on another instrument, then blow and draw until you get a matching pitch from the harmonica. Don't fret if it takes a while. Another wonderful thing about the harmonica is that it is much harder to play than it looks. But that means you have really fun years and years ahead of progressively getting better, and enjoying learning new things!
Sorry - meant to delete and post to new topic