Playing harmonica with guitar and harmonica choice ...
I play harmonica with guitar and it is very important for me to play together.
I have found out some harmonicas make it easier for me .
A harmonica that is soft and I can create sound with little effort because I have to put it on a rack
and I can draw it deep in my mouth it needs to create sound with little effort.
Among some harmonicas I find suzuki promaster easier to play .
What is your idea about this?
Also is equivalent temperament harmonica better choice if I play with guitar ?
Thanks
A big part of the answer to that question thankyou is if you are going to be playing with any other instruments and what kind of music you will be playing. I have learned how to tune pianos recently so have thought a lot on this subject. You CAN tune your guitar to sound better just as a guitar and you can tune it to sound better with your voice but modern Western music really is all based on equal temperament (how I tune pianos where you are fudging things to make the thirds and fifths both ok even if neither one is perfect) so...
If you are going to be playing say with someone on the electronic keyboard, if your harmonica (and guitar) aren't at equal temperament, you will not be in tune with it. Most other instruments are also tuned according to equal temperament. I can make my violin match whatever perfectly but my flute - I can make that go generally up or down a little but at my level no way I'm changing the thirds and fifths.
If you are playing with anyone else that isn't a total nerd about these things, the safest thing to do is to use equal temperament and besides, that's what the modern ear is the most used to. Pretty much all pop and rock is performed at equal temperament.
If you are going to be doing some very old folk, Rennaissance, or Medeival music (pretty much anything before Bach and his well-tempered clavier came along) the safest and easiest thing to do is to use the standard guitar tuners and equal temperament and then anyone on pretty much any standard instrument will be able to easily join in with you.
One of the things that sold me on getting a Crossover is that it is closer to equal temperament than other harmonicas yet the chords are fudged the tiniest bit to sound a bit better. It's called "compromised" which seemed sounds to my delicate ears like truly a great compromise. I can't tell you if the Crossover would match the rest of your requirements, but I love that it will accomodate pretty much all modern music tunings so I will be able to play with anyone in any style. So many harmonicas are NOT at 440 like the crossover whereas my pianos and all my other instruments and entire orchestras in the America and almost all instruments I might want to play with tune to 440 hz. I use a 440 A pitch fork to tune my violin, cello, my guitar and my other instruments are manufactured to be at 440. Why would I want just one of my instruments to be at 442 or 444 and always sound out of tune to my ear?
Here's an article on on specific tunings and makes of harmonicas:
https://www.patmissin.com/tunings/tun6.html
I decided to stick close to 440 hz and equal temperament myself. The only one of my instruments that is the exception is my recorder because that only came in 442 because it's designed to play Rennaissance music... and that BUGS me... so I might have to have ONE piano tuned to 442. One of my pianos is from first half of the last century that I might keep to fit instruments tuned a tiny bit higher like in the old days - but that's a real pain in the butt and no way I would be dragging that piano to a gig. ;) However, when I play in the recorder and viol group EVERYONE there is tuned to that ancient tuning together so I will fit right in.
In short, if you want to fit in with other modern instruments I would stick to 440 and close to equal temperament.
The problem with tuning a harmonica to A440 is that breath depresses pitch, and under normal playing conditions you may sound flat (because you are) relative to instruments tuned to A440.
Most harmonicas nowadays are tuned higher for that reason. You can always push pitch down while playing, but you can't push it up.
Equal tempered chords on harmonica tend to sound especially harsh, which is why so few harmonica models use it. Some kind of tempering can ease this a lot, as you've found with the Crossover.
Thanks Winslow. Does that mean that my crossover (when I learn to play it well enough) is going to sound flat while playing it with my piano or other instruments tuned to 440?
I really like the way it sounds all by itself but have not actually tried to play any one note with a tuner or my other instruments yet. I figured that I had to learn proper technique in order for it to be able to be really at the pitch intended, but never guessed that once I do learn it properly that it would sound flat. :O
I can move the mouthpieces on my flute and recorders so easily to change the pitch slightly that it never occurred to me that with the harmonica the act of blowing itself would be an issue and that it wasn't taken into consideration when promoting an instrument as tuned to 440.
I guess that does make sense or we wouldn't be able to bend notes at all the harmonica, but I just figured that there was a "sweet spot" that I would find where it just naturally hit 440 tuning when I was playing correctly.
This is actually a pretty big consideration for me as I'm actively doing a lot of ear training while learning to tune pianos - and pretty much always on the violin and cello.
Dorothy -
Did you retune your Crossover to A440? It comes from the factory tuned to something higher, so unless youve retuned it, no worries.
Marine Bands used to be stamped A440 on the left tab of the top cover, but that went away a few years ago, as it no longer reflected the reality of how harmonicas are tuned.
If you have retuned it, try recording yourself playing along with a backing track at normal volume, and see whether your pitch is coming out flat.
I personally tune to A442, when I tune at all, as I find that puts me comfortably in tune with A440 players. Nwadays orchestras tune as high as A446, so I'd probably have to tune to A448 for an orchestral gig.
Tuning reference, by the way, has nothing directly to do with note bending.
I'm new to the harmonica Winslow so specifically bought a Crossover with the expectation of not having to open up and mess with my first harmonicas. :D I wanted to have the best chance of just being in tune and not messing up an instrument by accident. Crossovers had the best reviews of the ones that I watched on youtube etc. (by people not associated with Hohner) of being in tune and ready to play out of the box and that 440 tuning really did sell me. I'm hoping to avoid having to learn to open up a harmonica for a good long while.
That's great that Hohner took the air into consideration when saying that the Crossover is tuned to 440. I'm also glad my ears weren't deceiving me because it really does sound in tune. When my violin goes flat I can hear it right away so I think I would have been able to hear if my harmonica were out of tune even without checking it. I could hear how the first one I got had notes out of tune so I got another one that is in tune. If I had to start out tuning harmonicas before even learning how to play, I probably would have already given up the instrument.
I've been learning how to tune pianos and I have played in symphony orchestras along time and my understanding is that we always tune to 440 off the piano (because tuning that instrument to match anyone else is a big deal) or the oboe (the instrument least affected by humidity). It's extremely rare in the United States for a conductor to choose a different frequency for A than 440 and pianos are tuned to the 440 setting for the middle register and then of course tuned by ear outwards from there. The orchestras here are almost always tuned to 440. It would be an intentional (and kind of radical) decision to tune to anything else than 440. All us stringed players would have to actually move our hand positions out of our normal positions to adapt. We would all notice!
I think in Europe though they do tune to other than 440 so maybe it's because you are Canadian??? I've never played in an orchestra in another country than the USA.
Once I'm good enough I will definitely be recording myself to the jam track and be listening as you suggest. Thank you. But, first need to make sure my technique is not going to be at fault. I listened to all David's wife's lessons and at first her notes were from a half to a full step below David's and she slowly made her way up higher to get closer to him as she learned better technique.
This makes me think that my Crossover is SUPPOSED to sound at 440 so whether or not I am in tune to my own ear and to David's playing will be a good indication of whether or not my technique is right.
That's the plan anyway - we'll see what actually happens. It should be an interesting experiment to record myself to see if I'm matching intonation with David and the band in the jam tracks.
I'm just glad that I won't have to worry about the instrument automatically sounding flat out of the box - I will just worry about me and my technique. That's really good news.
Thanks again for the great info.
My late partner, Tuula Tossavainen Cotter, was in the first violin section with the Sacramento Philharmonic when we met, and had previously toured with the San Francisco Opera, and played under Herbert Von Karajan as a youth. It was she who told me that they tuned to A446. She had to adjust downwards to play with me at A442ish, while I found I had to depress pitch a bit with the amateur fiddlers we both played with in the San Francisco Scottish Fiddlers, who all tuned to A440. (You can find video of us on Yotube, both with the SFSF and in other contexts.)
For over 30 years, I've been hearing and reading about orchestras pushing pitch up to create an impression of greater brightness. Interesting to hear that this does not match your experience. Whether violinist change their tuning or change their hand position to conform with such tuning changes is a question I hadn't considered; I had assumed that they tuned to a higher reference pitch.
Maybe it's a California thing? Dunno, but that's very interesting! 442 is standard in Europe with some countries a little higher and I think the New York Philharmonic does use 442, but the standard for the most part is still 440 and definitely with community orchestras. The interesting thing is that SOLOISTS will sometimes tune up a cent or two in order to stand out more.
You are right, the reference pitch would be different but stringed instrument players at home are going to tune to their tuning forks and pianos. Strings are weird and tempermental things. I play on gut so I will be constantly adapting my hand position as my strings change. If strings are always set to a certain pitch normally and then changed for a performance, they will tend to move more. As strings age, they tend to stay at pitch more and more. Stretch them and you will get more slippage. You'll also just know that the pitches are not the same as you hear from your instrument the rest of the time you are playing. Strangely enough too, the instrument itself will resonate and feel different to play and it can be difficult to adapt. Your strings will likely go more easily out of tune and will have to move your hand position more, you will have to adapt your ear to the new pitches coming from your instrument - so the players definitely notice.
That's all pretty detailed stuff on strings for a harmonica forum - but hey - it's where I'm coming from and I LOVE not having to deal with all that on the harmonica. It's part of the reason why I would much prefer to get the top of the line harmonica (the Crossover - top of the line instrument for only $70!) and hopefully never have to deal with tuning it as I am doing this as a hobby and not a profession. Having an instrument that I don't have to constantly be tuning is part of the appeal of the harmonica for me. I hope I'm being realistic about that expectation.
The shape of the covers is important for how well the harmonica fits in your mouth. Also, whether the front edges of the reedplates are exposed, like on the Marine Band, Promaster, and Manji, or sunk into the comb, like on the Special 20, Lee Oskar, and Promaster.
Temperament is a tricky question.
If you tune a guitar to equal teperament, none of the chords will sound completely in tune, because they aren't. But none will sound any worse than the others.
Tune the guitar to favor, say, an E major chord, and other chords, like the G major, won't sound quite right. Some guitar players retune a little between songs for this reason.
Some harmonica players actually have two complete sets of harmonicas, one set in equal temperament for single-note melody playing, and another tuned to favor chords. Norton Buffalo used to do this. But that's a lot of harps to carry around, and a lot of $$.
Finding what pleases your individual ear may be a matter of experimenting. Get something in ET, such as a Golden Melody, and try that against something in just intonation, like a Marine Band, and listen carefully to the difference. maybe recording yourself so you can listen back. If neither pleases you, there are various compromise tunings that might suit you better.
Sorry not to have an easy answer for this one. There's going to be some trial and errpr in both guitar tuning and harmonica temperament before you arrive at a satisfactory combination.