Question about comparing a 520DX to a 520SLB
Hi Greg,I recently bought a '62 520SLB that is in great condition. It has the original white CM element and it has a 4 prong cord going to a 1/4" plug so it is set to hi-z. I have tried to compare it to my 520DX and I've noticed that the 520DX is louder (when the DX's volume knob is at the highest) than the 520SLB when keeping the amp's settings the same. When I have used the 520SLB, so far, I have to turn the amp's volume up a few numbers to match the volume of the DX. The microphone sounds great, though, and gets a better sound than the DX.
Is the volume difference normal?
Does having a volume knob automatically give your microphone more volume?
Thanks,
Thanks! Actually the four pin connector came standard for this lo-Z mic whereas the 520SL came with a three pin connector. My wording probably confused you. I found it interesting that this mic cord was made by Shure (4 pin to 1/4") but I think the impedance isn't truly matched for hi-Z. I will try to experiment with using a xlr converter, then plugging it into a hi-z converter next time im at a store.
Is volume pretty much the only thing that is affected by a mismatch?
Ah,yes - the ones with stands did come that way. I forgot that. Here is the full info on both: http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/444/us_pro_520sl_ug.pdf
Your assumption "it has a 4 prong cord going to a 1/4" plug so it is set to hi-z" is incorrect. The 4 pin connectors were used a lot on dual impedance mics like the 545. You could buy 4-pin to 1/4" cables which brought the high imepdance signal to the 1/4" jack; and 4-pin to XLR that brought out the low imepdance signals - but this was only true when the mic had a dual impedance element. However the 520SLB was low imedpance only - the extra pins were used to carry the "press to talk" switch signal. It can't be high Z unless someone has swapped in a newer high impedance or dual impedance element.
To be sure, tell me the model number of the element. It is probably a 99C86 which is low impedance.
An impedance mismatch results in reduced volume and a change in frequency response.
In any case - it can be made into a great harp mic! It is possible to mount an impedance matching transformer inside the shell and turn it into a high imepance mic.
Hi Greg,
Yes, the element is a 99C86 BE, meaning that it was built in May of 1962. Pretty cool! Anyway, I will go to a Guitar Center to check out some Z-converters and also a 1/4" to XLR converters. I'll let you know about the changes! BTW, when I compared my 520DX and 520SLB, the 520DX's volume knob was close to 12 o'clock to get the same amount of volume from both microphones. At the moment, I want to try and keep the microphone as original as possible, and luckily they still make the type of cable connectors. Keeping the handle on adds a lot of weight, but it also acts as an on/off switch. My opinion on all of this may change in the near future.
I'll let you know about my results after using the converters.
Thanks!
Hi Greg,
Yes, the element is a 99C86 BE, meaning that it was built in May of 1962. Pretty cool! Anyway, I will go to a Guitar Center to check out some Z-converters and also a 1/4" to XLR converters. I'll let you know about the changes! BTW, when I compared my 520DX and 520SLB, the 520DX's volume knob was close to 12 o'clock to get the same amount of volume from both microphones. At the moment, I want to try and keep the microphone as original as possible, and luckily they still make the type of cable connectors. Keeping the handle on adds a lot of weight, but it also acts as an on/off switch. My opinion on all of this may change in the near future.
I'll let you know about my results after using the converters.
Thanks!
Hi againIts very likely that Guitar Center or any other music store is going to give you a "deer in the headlights" look. I doubt they will understand what you're trying to accomplish. It is in fact rather difficult to find a 1/4" to 1/4" impedance matching transformer that you could use externally. The very reason BlowsMeAway Productions exists is to help customers with this sort of issue. I CAN make such an adapter, but there is a better way.
What I was suggesting is rewiring the mic internally - I have transformers that will fit in the shell. Then effectively it will be a self contained high impedance mic you can just plug into your amp with the existing cable. If it were me, however, at the same time I would recommend losing the built-in cable (which is highly failure prone and makes the mic a pain in the butt to store) and installing a switchcraft connector in its place. I can also convert the cable that comes out of it with a screw-on connector so that the system is "whole". This gives you the option later of connecting accessories like my Vintage Volume Control or a screw-on to XLR adapter so you can go wireless.
Cheers
Hi Greg,
Thank you, again, for your suggestions. I want to keep the microphone in it's original condition, but I might change my mind in the future. I'm not gigging full time, but I'm getting a start this summer by going to various blues jams and getting invited to be a guest in some bands.
The Guitar Center employees did give me a, "Deer in the headlights" look," but were able to take me to the adapters I needed. What I did was this:1. Male 1/4" to Male XLR2. Female XLR to 1/4" low-Z to hi-Z converter.
(Again: It's a strange situation (I think) that my 520SLB has a Shure made 1/4" plug instead of an XLR but this is the case. It must be after market.)
The difference was like night and day! I was able to keep my amp's settings (It's a solid-state 12 watt) volume and gain settings extremely low (like at 2 or 3) and the volume was PLENTY loud. Once I plugged the mic in without any of these adapters, you couldn't hear the microphone at all. It's more than twice the volume with some improvement of tone. I've learned a lot about microphones during this little journey. I will need to compare it, again, to my 520DX, but I'm pretty excited about this improvement that was so cheap and easy.
If you're happy with what you're getting, then that is all that matters.
HOWEVER - sounds like you have the XLR2 to 1/4" plugged into the mic, and the 1/4" to XLR impedance matching transformer plugged into that. Sorry - but I'm pretty sure this is all wrong.
First, the XLR2 to 1/4" is for unbalanced mode. It will have the 1/4" connector wired to pins a and 2 of the XLR connector - yet (and this is all predicated on the assumption that your mic is low imepdance,balanced wired, which I beleive to be the case but am not 100% sure) - the mic's balanced low imedpance signal is actually on pins 2 and 3. You're getting half of the mic's output delivered to the 1/4" end.
Next, you'ree running through the imepdance matching transformer backwards - the 1/4" side is the high imepdance side and the XLR side is the low impedance side. The XLR connector on that device is wired in balanced mode.
This stuff is confusing! And I may be the one confused - but if you send me the sutff I GUARANTEE to sort it all out and make it work properly.
As for the SLB - back in the days when those mics were sold, people frequently wired their own cables. You can't assume it is high imedpance because it has a 1/4" connector. You CAN however determine that by measuring the resistance of the mic (which you can do at the 1/4" connector) with an ohm meter. If it is 15-150 ohms, it is low imepdance. If it is somewhere around 1,000 ohms it is high imepdance. If it is high impeance someone may have installed an internal imepdance matching transformer or a high imepdance element.
Cheers
HI, BK
520DX's can indeed be hot, CM's vary in output, and within 2 numbers on the amp isn't a big cause for concern. However when you say 4-pin connector - that is not standard for any Shure bullet. It is remotely possible something isn't wired right, although, unless the element is a newer 99S556 dual impedance CM (whch wouldn't have been original in a 520SLB) - there are only two terminals so its pretty hard to get it wrong! It usually either works or it doesn't.
You can turn your amp up a little more? You get more manageable feedback behavior, less pre-amp drive and more power tube drive. All of that has an effect on tone. All that matters in the end is whether you like it!
Cheers