Scales basic question
Hello David,
Your site has been great, but I have to say you material on Scales moves very, very fast. Two general questions:
1- As an old band player, I've memorized scales decades ago. When I look at your exercise in Music Study 2 which I am reviewing in prep for the scale work in Level 4 I came to the fill in the blank grid.
I find myself filling in the blanks based on memory but it made me wonder if there was a theory here I am missing. Based on the layout of the piano keyboard is the scale construct based on that keyboard.
For example, on the A scale, I know that the 3rd note is a C#. Should I have known that based on where the half steps fall in the major mode scale?
2- I heard you explain the importance of knowing the scales as we preform and improvise. Again after years of playing sax I was very accustomed to playing charts as written. So if a tune was in the key of G it had a single #. If I were playing a tenor sax it was intrisicly in the key of Bb, but that was never a concern to me as I simply played the chart as written for Bb tenor sax.
I cant seem to reconcile the issue of the scale (by position) in actual play. I get the idea of chords but not how scale knowledge applies. For example, if Im in scond position on my A harp. I am therefore in the key of E which has 4 #s built in. But as I play the A harp second position I consider it equivelant to the C harp. I know this is fundemental and I have to get this right. Why do I have to be consered with knowing the E scale in that case?
Sorry for the elementary question before. I should have gone back on that myself. Im more cought up now.
So when musicians memorize these alternative scales (which I had never know of from concert band work) is it best to memorize by Scale Degrees (1, 3, 5 etc) or Notes (C, E, F, Bb)? Im tending to think that the scale degrees is more useful.
No worries.
You're right, scale degrees are more useful. You'll first memorize the notes on the C harmonica, then see how they apply to chords and scales, and then move into the more universal scale degrees.
Just a couple more questions to help clear up some confusion on my part
- How does 1st Pos, 2nd pos figure into the scales? If Im playing C Major, C Pentatonic and C Blues scale I assume I am on a C harp. It appears that if I am next playing the G Pentatonic I am still on the C harp?
- If I memorize these scales on the C harp is it like the other issues that I can also play them on an A harp etc using the same Scale Degrees. Wow...I hope so as that is a lot to memorize.
Thanks for your patience.
Sure gwknopp, here we go...
"How does 1st Pos, 2nd pos figure into the scales? If Im playing C Major, C Pentatonic and C Blues scale I assume I am on a C harp." Yes. You could play these scale in 1st Position (C harmonica in the key of C) or as the IV Chord in 2nd Position (C Harmonica in the Key of G... the IV Chord being the C Chord).
"It appears that if I am next playing the G Pentatonic I am still on the C harp?" Yes. The G Pentatonic would be your I (one) chord in the key of G, 2nd Position.
"If I memorize these scales on the C harp is it like the other issues that I can also play them on an A harp etc using the same Scale Degrees. Wow...I hope so as that is a lot to memorize."
You're correct. Yes, that would be TONS of memorizing if you had to think in all twelve keys.
Please excuse me David,
So I am understanding that we should be able ot play the scales in harp 1st position and also second position? Ok, so on my C harp second position, my 2 draw is my G (root of the I chord). So is my C scale, second position equivelant a G scale? Sorry, I'm somewhat lost.
Also I see that the upper registere on the Blues Scale contains some overblow notes. I dont think we have covered that at yet at Level 4. Did I miss it?
Gary
Hello Gary.
"So I am understanding that we should be able ot play the scales in harp 1st position and also second position?"
Eventually, yes (and 3rd position). You asked about the C scales, so I was answering your question about C scales. The C Major Scale is presented for you in the earlier lessons just to get to know where the next higher and lower notes are available on your harmonica. You then learn the G Major Pentatonic Scale and G Blues Scale. 2nd Position is what you study first, since it's the most common position to play in. Major Pentatonic is used when you want a light sound and the Blues Scale is used when you want a dark/bluesy sound (you'll learn where these are appropriate in your improvising study lessons).
"Ok, so on my C harp second position, my 2 draw is my G (root of the I chord)."
Yes. When playing your C harmonica in 2nd position, you and the band are in the key of G, so you'll want to use the G Major Pentatonic (light) or G Blues Scale (dark). You can also just blow licks, like most do, but these scales are helpful for new players to get to know what's "safe."
"So is my C scale, second position equivelant a G scale? Sorry, I'm somewhat lost." I guess you can think of it that way.
"Also I see that the upper registere on the Blues Scale contains some overblow notes. I dont think we have covered that at yet at Level 4. Did I miss it?"
No, I do not present any overblows. If you're speaking of blow bends, yes, the C Blues Scale uses them. If you have not learned how to blow bend yet, skip those notes.
Im hitting the wall on scales. This is very hard to memorize and the process is hard to keep up (hate to use the word boring as I really love this music but its a real challenge) Im devoting perhaps half of my daily 1-2 hours practice. Any recommended practice routine to maximize effectiveness? Also wondering of successful players memorize by sound, scale degrees, notes, muscle memory or other. I am quite sure sound is the best long term answer.
Any practice hints?
Gary K
Im hitting the wall on scales. This is very hard to memorize and the process is hard to keep up (hate to use the word boring as I really love this music but its a real challenge) Im devoting perhaps half of my daily 1-2 hours practice. Any recommended practice routine to maximize effectiveness? Also wondering of successful players memorize by sound, scale degrees, notes, muscle memory or other. I am quite sure sound is the best long term answer.
Any practice hints?
Gary K
Duplicate
Morning Gary. You don't have to focus so heavily on scales... it's just one aspect of study, and nowhere near the most important. I recommend you not spend more than 10 minutes on scales per practice session. I would recommend more like 5 minutes, unless you're at the point in your improvising studies (Improvising Study 9) where you're implementing the scales in your improvising. Note that I just said Improvising Study 9... unless you're that far along in your improvising studies, scales are not a main focus. In the end, it's three scales that are helpful to memorize... 2nd Position Major Pentatonic (G Major Pentatonic if you're on a C Harmonica), 2nd Position Blues Scale (again G) and 1st Position Major (C... in this case it's not so much for improvising as it is just to get to know your harmonica). Does this help to put this into perspective?
Hello gwknopp. Answers below...
1) "For example, on the A scale, I know that the 3rd note is a C#. Should I have known that based on where the half steps fall in the major mode scale?" That's correct, this is covered in the video lesson (where I'm playing the piano), as well as the material in the PDF leading to that scale worksheet (review Music Theory 1, Section 2).
2) You are correct... we commonly focus on "thinking" as if we're playing the C harmonica in C, 1st Position... G, 2nd Position... and D, 3rd position. Knowing that each harmonica is a carbon-copy of the other, we only have to think on one harmonica (C harmonica), in the various positions we play in, and simply changing the key of harmonica will match the band's key.
The reason why it's important to study all the scales, is that it answers some fundamental questions for the learner, such as...
1) Why are flats AND sharps used? (this is only discovered when trying to create all of the major scales)
2) When taking sheet music for a particular song, in a particular key, you'll be able to transpose that song into the key of C (1st Po), G (2nd Po), or D (3rd Po) for you to play on the harmonica (so you're working in a familiar key). This is the goal of Music Theory Study 1
3) So that you can do sequences, which is a very important technique in improvising and songwriting. A sequence is where you take a lick played on the I (one) chord and transpose it (sequence it) to the IV Chord. The end result is the same lick, but moved up four notes of the scale to match the IV Chord.
The biggest reason, is understanding (a basic understanding) of how scales are built... this is the foundation of a lot of other ideas in music understanding down the road. For this reason, we don't want to skip it. Is it super practical to the harmonica player?... nope, but it leads to other, more practical, applications.