The signs a harp is on its way out?
Hi Kinya
I've loved your 'Harpsmith' videos!
I am wondering if I need to re-tune a G Marine Band Deluxe I have that has started to make a buzz off the 2 Draw when bent down a step.
The Harp is showing as dead on tune when drawn with the Harp Ninja, but a new harp I've just got shows it about '1/4 past on the dial' (is that 1/2 a semitone sharp?).
Could this be a sign that the reed is going flat due to playing over time?
Is this a normal occurrence for the life of a reed/Harmonic, for the reed to go flat? Or is there more commonly a reed fracture type of thing to show that a Harp is beyond repair/service?
Am I barking up the wrong tree even thinking it is flat because the new Harp is tuned sharp?
Is my buzz on the bend not caused by the reed tuning and because the Harp is 'blown out'?
How can I tell that it is a tuning issue?
Many thanks for your time in advance :-)
Cheers
Richard
I'll have a look at that tomorrow :-)
cheers
Richard
Hi Kinya
Well I've had a go today With The cleartune and the new and old G side by side.
The old G is 12 cents flat. If I draw bend with the cleartune and don't draw too much volume there's no rattle/buzz. If I play a riff and there are dynamics that have the volume raise up from 'softly' then I get the noise but on checking on the tuner I'm bending a bit flat on the whole step bend.
With the cover plates off it is the same and still makes the rattle/buzz on the whole step bend when bent anything but softly.
The New G reads 12 cents sharp and I find I'm bending that more accuratly, possibly due to it being sharp? There is no rattle or buzz even if I increase the volume.
Any more thoughts?
Cheers
Richard
Hi Richard,
Q1: With the cover plates off it is the same and still makes the rattle/buzz on the whole step bend
A1: OK. The noise you hear is actually the reed catching against the side wall of the reed plate as it swings in/out of the reed plate slot. Remove the reed plates from the comb and hold up each reed plate to the light. Favoring your "master eye" (close the weaker eye), site the sliver of light surround the #2 reeds--both blow and draw ... there should be an even amount of light surrounding the sides and tip of the reed (push the reed in/out of the slot to emulate reed vibration). I'm willing to bet the reed is "off axis". You can correct this with a reed Hohner and/or Richard Sleigh reed wrench. Use a Jewler's touch! (it won't take much to re-center the reed to clear the reed plate slot).
Q2: The New G reads 12 cents sharp and I find I'm bending that more accuratly, possibly due to it being sharp?
A2: At 442hz, you should read 0cents on your tuner ... 12cents is too sharp for my taste ... BUT, coupled with your current bending technique, your bent note will definetly show "in tune"
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Hi Kinya
Thanks for that!
I'be ordered a Hohner toolkit in preparation for your answer ;-) so that should be here today fingers crossed.
I will get straight to it with the reed cantering check.
As I now have a tool kit and can have a go at tuning :-/ is the ideal set up to have both the blow and draw set to 0 Cents?
As you've said, for my (current) playing style/ability I should have it somewhat sharp?
Many Thanks again.
I shall come back to you with the results ;-)
Richard
Well I fitness my tool kit today (very nice it is too)
I had a go at trying to see if the reeds were off centre holding the plates up to the light and found it very difficult to see as a slight angle in holder mg the plates makes a big difference to the slither of light you see to one side :-/ so I used a LED mini spotlamp that I could angle facing up and the plate fots over the whole lamp to not blind you whilst you look a the reed gap. That worked a treat.
The offending reed did seem to be a tad closer to one side of the reed plate at the free end than the other side. So I had a go at adjusting it. Crikey you're right with the jewlle touch. I had it touching one side and then the other and back again lol eventually I got it back in the centre as close ini could to looking central.
Put the Harp back together, chuffed With my efforts and then found it was doing the same. Drat! Not sure if it is as bad but it still doing it?
Do you think I should try tuning the reed on the blow and draw to the correct pitch and see if that helps (like the new Harp)?
cheers again!
Richard
Hi Richard. Drat indeed!
If you could send me a sound file recording of this noise issue, it would help me help you better.
Earlier you asked about the ideal tunings for your MB:
- set the 2 blow reed in the range of -8c to -12c
- set the 2 draw reed in the range of 0c to +2c
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Hi Kinya
Thanks for that! I'll have a go and see how we do.
Just for your info, I had another Harp doing a similar noise but far worse (More of a horrible squea) when the 3 hole draw was bend down all the way.
This was a Marine Band that I had tried to convert to screws and a Corian comb. I did one (probably my favourite playing Harp) and the other one I messed up by gettinb the reed plate screw hole slightly off so had to widen it to get the comb to sit in the correct position.
Anyway, that gave me a harp with a similar fault that squeaked when bent down so I had a go with that one.
The reed looked central in its slot, but the free end was very close to the slot at one side. So I had a very 'bad' go at de-embossing and to my amazement I got the reed to stop squeeling.
So I will have another look at this Harp and see if I can spot the same problem. I do need to find something more suitable for a tool to do the work with more finesse.
I will have a go at the tuning too whilst I'm there :-/
Cheers
Richard
Hi Richard,
... also make certain that entire length of the reed swings in/out of the slot like a door (on it's side). You don't want the tip to dive in first, and/or the middle of the reed to dip in first.
... secondly, site the reed from it's free end--is it parallel to the reed plate? ... or is torqued a bit either direction?
... I'm still suspicious that some impossible-to-see burr is hidden near the back. Try sliding a .002" shim stock (feeler guage) under the reed--all the way back to the rivet a few times. Be mindful not to lose control over the reed and have it snap upward. I don't want you angry with me for breaking this reed off ;o)
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Hi Kinya
Many thanks again Kinya.
I will have a go with all that you' advised.
Oh yes....what is the order that I should work on a reed? (After I've done the feeler gauge burr check)?
ie :-
1, sand thr Draw plate flat
2, Emboss the slot (I think that's beyond my playing)
3, check the zero point
4, gap the reed/ check the way the reed enters the slot.
5, tune the reed to the correct pitch.
I gather that working on something will effect something else so doing things in thr incorrect order will have you going back and forth?
Many Thanks again Kinya
I'll let you know my findings
Richard
Hi Richard, Yes the sequence and your assumptions are accurate ... also read the forum blog on using the vacuum to "settle" the reeds.
I'm still interested in you sending me a sound file of the issue and your playing style ...
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Hi Kinya
Many thanks again.
Well I did the feeler gauge trick a go, I can't work out if it is better by a tad, but it's still there.
I haven't had much time to try and do any more, but I have re-watched some of your gapping/embossing/ tuning videos so I think I'll have a go at checkkng the gapping and tune it to the suggested pitch and then see if anything changes.
I was getting paranoid that it was just my playing, but the ootb new G Harp doesn't do it. :-/
oh, ps do you know where I can get a UST 'ultimate sizing tool' from?
Cheers
oh ps, still trying to work out how to attach a soumd file as I generally use my iPhone/pad and do t get my laptop out much.
Hi Richard, Dick Sjoberg, the inventor of the UST, sold it's concept to Seydel--but it is has been completely redesigned. I would recommend ordering the Reed Burnishing tool from Richard Sleigh <http://hotrodharmonicas.com/>
p.s. don't forget that sometimes the best solution will be to replace the reed with new and/or a good donor reed from another harmonica. You can locate this #2 D pitch reed on the 2 draw of a G harmonica, or 2 blow from a Bb harmonica. Here are compatible donor reed plates:
- Marine Band
- Crossover
- Special 20
- Rocket
- Golden Melody
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Hi Kinya
ahh I see, yes I thought I'd seen that funny tool on the Seydel site.
I did have another go with the 2draw reeds by checking the gap and his the reed enters the slot etc.
I had a go with the tuning and made a bit of a boob as I took metal off the rivet end when I was trying to raise the pitch. Arrrgggg, I did manage to get it back up to pitch, so I don't think I'd done too much damage. It is so much more responsive and it's possibly louder, bug the 2 draw still has the noise when bent down.
Still all this is getting me learning how to remove metal from a reed and adjust the gap etc. It's quite fun :-)
cheers
Richard
Thumbs up Richard!
Hey Ruby2, good to hear from you.
Q1: I am wondering if I need to re-tune a G Marine Band Deluxe I have that has started to make a buzz off the 2 Draw when bent down a step.
A1: Let's rule out that the reed is not clanking against the inside of your cover plate. Please remove the coverplates and play (bend) the #2 reed. Is it still making an unpleasant sound?
Q2: The Harp is showing as dead on tune when drawn with the Harp Ninja, but a new harp I've just got shows it about '1/4 past on the dial' (is that 1/2 a semitone sharp?).
A2: I'm not familiar with the particulars of the Harp Ninja. Please invest the $3.99 and load the ClearTune chromatic tuner into your smart phone or tablet. Calibrate your tuner to A = 442Hz. Play 2 draw and the needle should land in the range of 0 to 2+cents sharp. Your blow 2 reed should show flat about -10cents
Q3: Could this be a sign that the reed is going flat due to playing over time?
A3: Let's wait and check it against the ClearTune chromatic app
Q4: Is this a normal occurrence for the life of a reed/Harmonic, for the reed to go flat?
A4: Yes, especially with an agressive (read: poor) playing technique
Q5: Or is there more commonly a reed fracture type of thing to show that a Harp is beyond repair/service?
Please don't keep us in suspense! Let us know the results
Your Harpsmith, Kinya