Tongue blocking frustrations from lip pursing players
Dave:
I started learning harmonica using the lip pursing method and also used this to learn all my bends on the 2,3,4 draw. I have been playing and performing using this style for a few years. I certainly would like to learn tongue blocking for the techniques I can't do with lip pursing. However I am struggling with playing and bending solely using tongue blocking. I am working through the levels of achievment program and sometimes get frustrated with using the tongue blocking and resort back to lip pursing where I know I can play cleaner. I am sure there are other players out there that have experienced the same problem. I really want to continue in the LOA program because your instructional material is really excellent and detailed. I am learning so much more new stuff to really improve my playing. I assume I should try to stick it out with the tongue blocking, especially if I plan to test for LOA. Any advice or input received from other lip pursers on how to approach this and avoid the frustration?
Thanks
Brian "Chops" C
Thanks for your insight. I will certainly work on the tongue block as well as continue improving my lip pursing. It would be really great to be able to switch it up as needed to use the respective strengths of each. I consider myself an average player and would like to up my game as I try to get out and perform more (I have no intentions of quitting my day job to perform professionally, I just enjoy playing and sharing the music with others).
Thanks again for your great instructional material.
Brian
Happy to help. Just keep having fun and enjoying the process of developing your skills day by day. The cool thing is after a number of days... we don't know how many... we're able to do things we never thought we could. Pleasure to have you on the site.
Hey Brian
Like yourself and many others, I found tongue blocking bends very difficult at first, being a long time lip purser, but perseverance was definitely the key for me. At one point, when I started to hit tongue block bends (harps soaked with excessive saliva!), I started to lose my ability to lip purse- it was a nightmare! I wasn't tongue blocking with enough precision and I was suddenly very sloppy when lip pursing! I considered quitting the whole tongue block approach (maybe 3 months in to it). I had to relearn some of my lip pursing technique as well as studiously practice tongue blocking techniques.
Over time, though, the techniques will come and your skill will develop. I am further along in my journey now and am enjoying playing immensely (with a long way still to go, mind) - As Dave says, enjoy the process and be prepared to surprise yourself when you are playing stuff that was previously out of reach!
(I currently switch fairly fluently between LP and TB and like to play around with the different expressive tone I can get both ways. In fact I'm currently working on how close I can get the two techniques to sound, tonewise, when bending!)
Thanks Rob
It's great to know others out there who can help. I hope I can do the same.
Brian
I was just practicing "Walk with me", first using LP. Then I decided to see what I could do with TB. I still LP on the 1 and sometimes 2, but to my surprise I was able to get some of the simpler licks to sound as good as my LP. I'll just have to keep at it with the TB. I'm sure curious on how to bend in TB, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Sounds like a good approach.
Hi Brian:
I got started playing lip pursing, too. I still do the lip pursing thing on the 1 hole, but only because the tongue switching is too much for me to handle. I can promise you that it will get easier. I now find it easier to tongue block than to lip purse, but there are advantages to either technique.
Good luck.
Thanks Marc
I am now following just about the same approach as you. I don't tongue switch on the one and two and almost always lip purse them. However after using tongue blocking in several songs I have found advantages in improved tone and ease of moving along the harmonica for some techniques. I just about always use tongue block now on upper octave playing. I am playing about 50/50 between the two embrochures now. It' s actually fun strategizing a song on where I will use tongue block or not and then experimenting to get the best effect. I still can only bend with lip purse, but willing to look into tongue block bending later. I' ll admit my playing has improved by adding tongue blocking. I think a good player should know how and when to use both.
Brian
I started here three weeks ago after studying with the great "Rock Harmonica" book by David for the last 10 months. Though I used the TB in the upper region, for shakes and chugging etc. now I am struggling with "Walk with me" (since yesterday especially the three-draw is challenging me). As Rob mentions above I also feel a bit brainwashed since I started TB on holes 1 to 3. New muscle-programming which hopefully ends up being better at both techniques. I rely on David and and do start from the very beginning... closing gaps is also a usefull approach in getting further... but I agree: it's not so cool to realize that I am a newbie seen from the TB-approach.
Kai
Kai
Thanks for your experience. Being a lip purser I was hesitant and almost resistant to tongue blocking. But I made a decision to man-up so to speak and persist to learn how to tongue block. I would not have thought it possible, but now I tongue block frequently. Only my 1, 2, and sometimes 3 are lip pursed as well as my bends for now. I am now a believer. My guitar guy has noticed an improvement in my tone. Harmonica players need to have both patience and stubbornness.
Wish you well in your journey.
Brian
after 3 weeks and every-day practice I slowly get better and I see a lot of advantages now learning to TB. For instance the shakes and switching between the upper and lower octaves is much easier by moving te tongue than by moving the harmonica or the head.
THX Brian!
All's 'ya guts 'ta do is keep doin' it, over, and over, and over agin. I've been playing keyboards for 40 years and I just started with Blues Harmonica's LOA in mid Sept. With a little more pratice I'll be submitting the "Walk With Me" song. Never played a note in my life. I do at least 90 min. daily, and often put in for 2+ hours. All of a sudden it'll hit 'ya. If you listen to Dave explaining breathing and movement a light will go off. Good luck. If I can do it ANYONE can! ;)
Hi,
I just started with the LOA programm and I´m completely new to TB. David says that in TB one should always try to cover 4 holes at the same time. Does that mean that when you play like hole 3 draw, you cover holes 456 with your tongue? And then, to play the 4 blow, you switch to the left side and cover holes 123?
I hope you understand what I´m asking, because I´m not a native speaker (nor writer...), so please excuse my "strange" English!
And I would like to add that I am completely happy that I signed up, the material is excellent, and I very much like the step by step approach. And it is a very nice idea (and very didactical?) to try to "earn" the different colours!
Thank you very much
Hartmut
P.S.: My question has already been answered by watching the video for chorus 2 of walk with me, sorry, always too impatient...
Welcome to the site Hartmut. When tongue blocking, your tongue will stay the left for all playing, except for hole 1.
For hole 1 your tongue will go to the right commonly covering holes 2 and 3
For hole 2 your tongue will go to the left, covering hole 1 and some wood of the comb
For hole 3 your tongue will go to the left, covering holes 1, 2 and some wood of the comb
For hole 4 your tongue will go to the left, covering holes 1, 2 and 3 (your lips are now four-holes in size)
For hole 5 your tongue will go to the left, covering holes 2, 3 and 4
You use this same approach all the way up to hole 10… having your lips sarong four holes and your tongue covers three holes to the left.
very much for your fast reply! This is really fun!!!
Hartmut
Reading your conversation and thoughts inspires me, thank you! I've been studying LP for several yrs and am finally tackling TB... I'm enjoying it, yet sometimes wonder if the effort is worthwhile... your thoughts confirm my suspicion that, indeed, it is both doable and worthwhile :-) Plus, I finally understand what a tongue-slap is... hooray!
I am glad to see all you players benefitting from this conversation. For all you lip pursers, keep on working the tongue blocking. You will be all the better for it. Enjoy the tongue block techniques. It is really great for me to switch it up and leverage the strengths. As I work to finish up my LOA3 study song I still need to lip purse on my bends as I am stronger that way. However I am trying to figure out TB bending. Have fun experimenting.
It is OK to stick out your tongue as long as there is a harmonica in your mouth.
Brian
... Thanks Brian.
Just read through it all here. I'm so sorry that I'm not the only one suffering the "sent-from-hell" technique of tongue-blocking after lip-pursing for a while.Hope you all understand how I mean that. :-D
Looking forward to reading much more from all of you, and being with you in this wonderful college for future superstars. (My dreams are my energy!)
Gully.
i've noticed as i've been using TB that my harp isnt always perpendicular to my face and that it's sometimes angled towards the right side of my face (hope that makes sense). Is this okay? Or should I try to keep my harp more straight?
Yes joedingwall, that does make sense. This is fine. This can actually be considered an advantage due to the fact we commonly lean the harp towards the right side of our face/cheek to block the upper holes of the harmonica for a tighter cup while preparing for an acoustic Wa Wa or for creating a tight cup for a dark amplified sound.
Great! Nothing to UNlearn yet (that I know of). Ha. Thanks for the VERY fast response. Much appreciated. Will help me not second-guess for my next hour of practice tonight
Hello Brian. For blues harmonica playing it's to your advantage to tongue block as much as possible. By developing the skill to tongue block bend as well, you then can make the choice of where and when to use it. Most professionals I know can do both well. If you use a combination of embouchures, which is sure a valid way to play, as I state in the "FAQ" section and the "Welcome!" video on your dashboard, players will commonly pucker holes 1 through 3 (tongue block techniques can mimicked very well in a pucker here) and tongue block holes 4 and above (this is where octaves, pulls, flutters, slaps, etc., have to be done in a tongue block)... puckering above the 3 if it's a bend-laden passage. These players will commonly pucker their blow bends as well. This is the way I played for many years, as well as Gary Primich, Paul de Lay and others. There WILL be passages that you'll need to tongue block and bend though to play... especially if you're copying a tongue blocker's lick (James Cotton's "Creeper" is a good example, the hook can't be played in a pucker). So again, it's a wise idea to keep practicing your tongue blocking bending so you're ready for it when you need it. In the end, it's completely up to you when and where you use each technique. If you want to pucker your bends and then switch to tongue for your slaps, pulls, octaves, etc., go for it, it doesn't matter to the audience which embouchure you use for your notes as long as you create great music with it. For LOA, I only require that you use tongue block techniques where it's required (again, slaps, pulls, octaves, etc.). Does this makes sense to you?